Danny Elfman is scoring 'Terminator Salvation'. You may now perform ritual seppuku

Gang,


I used to be a HUGE fan of Danny Elfman. It's just ridiculous how much I love the scores to Mars Attacks!, Big Fish, Dolores Claiborne, Army of Darkness, Good Will Hunting, To Die For, and Sleepy Hollow, among many, many others. The Nightmare Before Christmas soundtrack is a paragon of sweetly insane perfection, a soaring promise of joyfully uninhibited giddiness. His efforts on Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Edward Scissorhands and Beetlejuice flirt with the sublime. His scores for Batman, Spider-Man and Mission: Impossible are iconic; the music of MiB and its sequel may just be the very BEST thing about either film (more's the pity, for fans of the original Aircel / Malibu comic); ditto Scrooged, Darkman, Dick Tracy. I even love the music from Chicago. And yet... and yet... and yet. Lately (and perhaps because he's working more than ever before in his entire career) he's begun to offer up some less-innovative, conventional, even workmanlike material: A Simple Plan. Instinct. Proof of Life. The Family Man. Red Dragon. Meet the Robinsons. Charlotte's Web. Wanted. Now, I realize we've all got to pay the bills, really I do. But watching Mr. Elfman's long, slow, agonizing (though, it must be noted, inconsistent) fall from musical innovator to borderline mercenary hack has for me been like watching Peter Jackson morph into Uwe Boll, or James Cameron befoul himself a la Paul W.S. Anderson, or Christopher Nolan tail off into inarticulate, lobotmized, drooling John Carpenter-esque idiocy. (I'm aware, btw, that certain Fantaversians may disagree with some of these characterizations, and, moreover, I'm exaggerating. Sort of.)

So it's with a certain anxiety that I receive the news, posted to the MTV Movies Blog last Friday, that Elfman will take up the reins originally held by former composer professional Brad Fiedel (creator of the Terminator theme) and score Terminator Salvation. I have several reasons for said trepidation. First, from what I understand Salvation will be almost exclusively a future-war film, one that would seem to call for a martial theme, and that's not something Elfman has done, ever; the closest he ever came were in the scores for Batman, Darkman, Army of Darkness, MiB, Sommersby, Proof of Life, Mars Attacks! and The Kingdom, a hit-and-miss record if ever there was one imho. Elfman's great at throwing in the unexpected, creating dissonant and quirky and fiesty atmospheres that evoke unexpected emotion and playfulness and even wistfulness, and that's fine for a film like Big Fish or Beetlejuice or Scissorhands, but I'm not sure it's warranted for a purportedly back-to-the-basics installment in an exceptionally familiar franchise.

Then, too, there's the statement over there at MTV (EXCLUSIVE: Danny Elfman to Score 'Terminator Salvation'), that seems to indicate that Fiedel's Terminator theme MAY NOT be incorporated into the new film(s). That's frankly disturbing to me, bordering on sacrilege; it's as if Michael Giacchino had opted not to use the original Alexander Courage television theme in the forthcoming Star Trek, or if Bryan Singer had abandoned the soaring, epic Superman theme for Returns; or Warner Bros. had decided not to work anything even remotely recognizeable by John Williams into the Clone Wars motion picture soundtrack. (Oh, wait, that last one actually DID happen.) (Then again, notably, nothing yet produced for the Christopher Nolan Batman franchise has in any way resembled the Burton - Schumacher films' soundtracks, which were largely Elfman's creation.) Now, I'm not sure if this is entirely Elfman's decision -- I rather suspect, not -- but given how desperate McG seems to be to woo over longtime fans of the Terminator franchise, I don't know if this is a smart move, artistically / thematically OR commercially / politically.

But it's the third consideration that worries me the most: Why is this just happening NOW? Elfman -- or whomever -- should have been brought in a long time ago, to develop and familiarize himself with the film's concept and begin developing cues and themes from dailies and rough cuts of the production, so as to really marry the score to the film... NOT be brought in mere weeks before the film is scheduled to be locked. Was he McG's first choice? Was someone else's work on the production deemed substandard or inappropriate? According to MTV, Elfman only began working on the film THIS MONTH... WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? Then again, from what I understand Elfman was only brought in at the eleventh hour to score Burton's Planet of the Apes, one of my very favorite soundtracks and, in my opinion, one of the least-appreciated scores to be recorded in the last two decades, high on creativity and low on monotony. Perhaps I'll be surprised, and if McG's intention is to throw the audience off-balance by the spectacle and sensations endemic to this weirdly distorted future he's crafting, well, bringing Elfman on-board might well be a stroke of unmitigated genius. But I wonder, and I worry.

It's entirely possible Elfman's in the middle of a career resurrection of sorts; he's on-track to score the forthcoming 9, Wolfman, and Tim Burton's modern retelling of Alice in Wonderland, and I'm very, very excited to see what results from these efforts. (However, I can't for the life of me figure why he wasn't brought on-board Spike Jonze's troubled Where the Wild Things Are; that sounds like a slam-dunk to me.) I am also having trouble imagining the upcoming Sherlock Holmes without him (but there may yet be time to bring him into that project). However, I'm very very concerned. I have high hopes, perhaps unrealistically stratospheric, for McG's planned upcoming trilogy, and I really am getting sick of being routinely disappointed by long-expected Hollywood tentpole releases. I've been spoiled by the (for me) successes of Transformers and The Dark Knight, and I want to continue to be so. That's not SO much to ask, is it? [Grin]

What about you guys? Any thoughts? Comments? Insults?


Exclusive set image from Terminator 5: Groundhog Day (Summer 2011)

They're not using the theme? But Brad Fiedel needs his residual check!

I kind of disagree with you. I absolutely adore the majority of Elman's works, and while this may seem an unusual choice, and possibly unsuitable to the Terminator franchise, I am willing to back Elfman wherever he goes. I have total faith in his abilities to do the movie justice, and I'm sure it will sound absolutely great. There are not many better in the business, so to have someone as talented, and with the back catalogue as varied and exciting as you have previously mentioned, is a definite bonus. I am a little intrigued as to the tardiness of his appointment though, and I guess, therefore, that he was not first choice. Nevertheless, I trust he will do a sterling job.

meh.. does it matter who does the score when its being directed by the guy who did Charlies Angels: Full Throttle?? i love the original Terminator and its sequel, but i have very very low expectations for this project

Responding...

They're not using the theme? But Brad Fiedel needs his residual check! I like money.- Idiocracy

LOL, Boussh. He really does; as far as I know, he's out of the business at this point.

I kind of disagree with you. I absolutely adore the majority of [Elfman]'s works, and while this may seem an unusual choice, and possibly unsuitable to the Terminator franchise, I am willing to back Elfman wherever he goes. I have total faith in his abilities to do the movie justice, and I'm sure it will sound absolutely great.

I hope you're right, and you probably are. I agree that at this point in his storied career Mr. Elfman has pretty much proven himself beyond the need to justify his selection for any particular project or genre. (But, it's not like that's gonna stop me from wringing my hands, LOL.)

There are not many better in the business, so to have someone as talented, and with the back catalogue as varied and exciting as you have previously mentioned, is a definite bonus. I am a little intrigued as to the tardiness of his appointment though, and I guess, therefore, that he was not first choice. Nevertheless, I trust he will do a sterling job.

Again, I can hardly argue with your logic. Speaking more to your point about the timing of his selection: according to the Danish news site Markenpost.de (if you happen to sprechen ze Dane, fby the by, please feel free to check out their November 21, 2008 article on this topic at Tom Yorke soll «Terminator»-Soundtrack komponieren. Knock yourself out... I'll continue relying on the English-language translation, as the only "danish" I ever wrap my mouth around is slathered with copious amounts of bakers' cheese and the occasional fruit compote... However, perhaps I digress), McG initially approached Radiohead lead Thom Yorke about collaborating with Into the Wild contributor Gustavo Santaolalla -- who also appeared on the soundtracks for Babel, Brokeback Mountain, The Motorcycle Diaries, Amores perros and Michael Mann's fantastic The Insider -- on the film score for Terminator Salvation. An MTV Movies Blog post late last year also revealed that actor-rapper Common, who plays John Connor's (Christian Bale) principal lieutenant in Salvation, would write and record a song for the film's original motion picture sountrack, which doesn't sound all that terrific to me, honestly... Can you imagine a hip-hop interpretation of "My Miniature Prototype Fusion Reactor Will Go On"? I think f@$%ing not.

[M]eh.. does it matter who does the score when its being directed by the guy who did Charlies Angels: Full Throttle?? i love the original Terminator and its sequel, [but I] have very very low expectations for this project...

Well, Hell... Sorry to hear that, Spannaus. Though I'm compelled to point out that he ALSO helmed the original Charlie's Angels, a fairly entertaining and innovative title I thought... As well as the very respectable We Are Marshall, which proved (to me) that he can be a director of serious film, too, and isn't merely a one-trick pony.


"Turn Off Your Heart Light"?

I realize this probably belongs in the Music thread, but I thought I'd throw us all a little feel good Danny Elfman music

Swedge, I'm not sure how familiar you are with Common's repoirtoire, but I personally feel he's one of the most innovative and original rappers (he's more a poet, really) on the scene at the moment, and in light of his most recent album and his previous dabblings in electronic music, I think his song for the film might be less gimmicky and more appropriate than you might think.

I guess I need to learn how to take a joke.

Plus he's a better actor than most rappers.

Swedge, I'm not sure how familiar you are with Common's repoirtoire, but I personally feel he's one of the most innovative and original rappers (he's more a poet, really) on the scene at the moment, and in light of his most recent album and his previous dabblings in electronic music, I think his song for the film might be less gimmicky and more appropriate than you might think.

Not all that familiar, but I can't help my reaction: I'm just reminded too much of the sort of marketing gimmick I'd expect from a film like New Jack City.

I guess I need to learn how to take a joke.

LOL! Well, it WAS a joke, but perhaps a bad one.

Plus he's a better actor than most rappers.

Well, I'm tempted to retort with something along the lines of, "Well, THAT's not saying much," but, actually, I can think of quite a few decent double-threats that have come out of the urban music scene over the last couple of decades: Ludacris, Ice Cube, DMX, too many others to name. Not to mention, Tupac and, of course, Will Smith.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but it still sounds like silly-assed stunt marketing to me.


Let's not forget this guy, either. No, wait. On second thought, let's

I've had bad vibes about the T4 movie ever since McG got his grubby paws on it. I saw the teaser and stills and was impressed by the overall design.

And then I saw the extended teaser (an oxymoron?). Again, it looked thrilling, but in the worst possible way. It's all action, no character, which for me is what made T1 and T2 feel than more than a regular blockbuster. Especially T2, and the bond between Sarah and John, as well as The Terminator as the father figure. But there's substance, which is what is important.
I can see T4 being just a movie version of the Universal theme park ride. Especially when the trailer has motorbike terminators. Now what we have here is a higher cybernetic entity, Skynet, that is building advanced machines to take out humans. Why on earth would it invent motorbike terminators, being unbalanced and very easily destroyed? It doesn't make sense to me and instead feels like a teenager's wet dream, a way of adding something cool in this culture and incorporating into this movie. Next we'll have skateboarding terminators.

As for Elfman, I think this is the wrong choice. In the last few years Elfman's scores haven't been bad (though they have been forgettable), but the one thing they have is that there's a certain quirkiness to them, from Desperate Housewives to Spiderman to Family Man. His "serious" scores have been completely unmemorable as of late. So we're either going to get something rather generic and dull, or something at odds with the tone of the franchise. But then again, I get the feeling that McG is going to change the tone anyway, and make it into a big, dumb action flick.

Swedgin! wrote: been like watching Peter Jackson morph into Uwe Boll,

That kind of already happened for me with the release of Crap Kong...

I don't see why anyone had any real high hopes for this in the first place. It is only being made to milk more money out of the American public. The third one was useless, why wouldn't this one be? The series ended at 2, Skynet was stopped, the war never happened, and that's how it should be. It ended with Miles Bennett Dyson.

That said, I'm still going to see it. I'm just not going to acknowledge its connection with the first two films. Just like I do with the third, which wasn't a terrible film, just was entirely unnecessary to the series.

I know, I know. It's kinda like Star Wars, you keep hoping that it can recapture that bright spark of brilliance that illuminated your youth, but deep down you know it's going to be a faded facsimile of a once great idea, and perhaps even offensive.

I was glad to hear Bale was involved, but I have no hope in McG.

After reading an article in a screenplay mag, I feel a bit better about this installment. First off, it's a new trilogy, not single film. And the rights were bought by new people, so it's not done by the same who did the third movie (which I never saw). Apparently, these guys got the rights and thought,"what do we want to see?"..."the war in the future!", and made a new trilogy based on that war...point being, it may be a lot better than the previews show.

I'm really interested in seeing this one. We always get to see 'apocalypse' or 'almost apocalypse', but after apocalypse we dont get to see much of. If we do, we get crap like Doomsday. Which is one of the reasons, I was so bummed hearing The Road was pushed back.

..I gotta say, I DON'T understand, really, all the McG-hate (and, really, not just here in the Fantaverse). Sure, with a name like that, he's easy to make fun of (though, really, once you start off with a middle name like 'McGinty', it's probably ALL downhilll from there); ditto for his past as a music-video director, though, Hell EVERYBODY has to come from somewhere, right? (Moreover, didn't Spike Jonze, the Oscar-nominated director of Being John Malkovich, come from videos?)

Sure, his résumé's a little thin, but he's only forty, and scored a major win right out of the gate with Charlie's Angels (2000). He should have moved on to other projects, other genres rather than helming its obligatory and self-referential sequel, but it was a rookie mistake, the sort that even the most successful directors are wont to make (and not merely the wet-behind-the-ears... even Spielberg had his The Lost World: Jurassic Park). As I've said before, We Are Marshall was a solid, if not terribly memorable, effort that showed McG is willing to stretch into other thematic arenas, after playing it safe helming sequels and television series for several years after the anemic Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle.

I'm encouraged by many things about his upcoming Terminator trilogy: first and most importantly, the commitment at a conceptual level of Christian Bale, who I think we all agree has retained his early indie-film standards regarding character development and writing in his career, and can hardly be called a sellout. The deep involvement of such talents as Paul Haggis and Jonathan Nolan in the screenwriting process is also a phenomenally positive sign. And let's not forget, none other than James Cameron has given his endorsement as well, perhaps a foregone conclusion, but he has seemed particularly enthusiastic and encouraging of McG's vision in taking Terminator beyond its traditional time-travelling assassination motif, and into new and uncharted territory for the franchise.

Plus, according to the industry blog Cinematical, Michael Bay's getting pretty jumpy, in the most hilarious way no less, about the prospects of Terminator Salvation's giant war machines offering unexpected competition for his Transformers 2 (Michael Bay Upset With McG's Giant Terminators, posted today). Considering that Revenge of the Fallen tops many industry lists of 2009's expected top-grossers, and that its predecessor grossed over $300M against such still competition as the third Bourne, Pirates, Shrek, and Spider-Man titles, not to mention the fifth Harry Potter film, this is encouraging news indeed. When the director of Armageddon is running scared and whimpering about unfair competition, you've certainly made an impression.

Plus, Terminator 5 has already been greenlit. Someone's pretty optimistic.

Although I'm far from confident myself, I'm more than willing to give McG the benefit of the doubt, considering the talent he's assembled and what I've seen of the production so far. Yeah, the retention of Danny Elfman gives me pause, but I'm still hoping to have my socks rolled up and down by this exciting and unprecedented exploration of the Terminator universe.


McG's Terminator Vacation

And let's not forget, none other than James Cameron has given his endorsement as well, perhaps a foregone conclusion, but he has seemed particularly enthusiastic and encouraging of McG's vision in taking Terminator beyond its traditional time-travelling assassination motif, and into new and uncharted territory for the franchise.

This I did not know, and I must say I am very glad you shared this information. This makes me vastly more confident that the film may actually capture some of the magic that made T:2 my all time favorite. If James Cameron actually approves of the film, that is a pretty damn fine blessing to have as far as I'm concerned. This just jumped a few pegs on my most anticipated list, Transformers 2 is still at the top of the list though.

Well, hm. Actually, since I posted this I've been doing some additional research (nothing like closing the barn door after the horses have already fled), and it turns out that those reports may have initiated with McG, and NOT Cameron himself. I'm still trying to get a handle on what the truth of it is, but, yeah, maybe I spoke too soon there. I'll post any additional or clarifying information if I think it's reasonably solid.

From Ain't It Cool News, here are Cameron's thoughts on terminator: Salvation:

There's been some discussion at AICN and elsewhere of me rescinding my so-called blessing of T4 and that's not the case. The truth is there never was a blessing to rescind, and there's been some kind of misunderstanding between me and McG, perfectly innocent I believe. He asked me in a phone call when I was shooting in New Zealand earlier this year if I would be a supporter and creative participant in the new film. I said sure, send me the script and I'll give you my thoughts. And I warned him that free advice is usually worth what you pay for it. For whatever reason I never got the script and to date I haven't seen a foot of film other than what everybody's seen in the trailer, which is not enough to form an opinion. So I have zero basis for supporting or dissing the film. As I said in an interview, for all I know it could be a masterpiece or it could be a big steaming pile. I think all people heard was the steaming pile part and concluded I was against the film, which I'm not. In fact, it might be very good, an opinion based solely on what Sam Worthington has shared with me. He's nobody's fool when it comes to material, and has absolutely the lowest bullshit quotient of anyone I know, and he has repeatedly told me that he reckons the film is going to be good. I know him to be very critical (in a healthy way) of his own work, and an actor who always aspires to excellence, so I know he wouldn't praise the film if he didn't feel it.

Obviously I can't give my blessing (whatever that means anyway ) to the film completely blind. But I'm predisposed to be supportive based on Sam's involvement and his judgment, because I believe in him. So there you have it. Let's all keep our fingers crossed that it's not a steaming pile.

Jim out

Eh... well, who knows then.

Agreed, geez. Though I'm still hopeful. (And thanks for posting that, Kaiser.)

I thought Charlie's Angels was one of the worst mistakes of my life. I wasted 92 minutes of my life watching that punch bowl full of runny, steaming, rotten dogshit and I have regretted it ever since. If that is the best arguement he has to show that he is able to make a new Terminator movie, count me out.

Who creates the musical score doesn't effect me in the slightest when the movie is directed by the hollywood equivalent of herpes.

We Are Marshall doesn't really count. How hard is it to make a film about a tragedy? Show the people, show them die, make people sad. But to make a Charlie's Angel sized toilet blockage takes a lot of un-talent.

Apologies for the back-to-backs, but I ran across a piece posted today at ComingSoon.net with some interesting information about not just Terminator Salvation, but the entire planned upcoming trilogy: Will Linda Hamilton Be Back for Terminator Salvation?

I won't spoil it for y'all... But the third paragraph is, erm, rather intriguing, shall we say.


She'll be back. He'll be... born

I don't think Michael Bay is whimpering about unfair competition so much as he just wants to have another director vs. director boxing match, like that one with him and Uwe Boll that never happened.