Movies From the 21st Century That Will Be Remembered as CLASSICS

Am I the only one who enjoys the Burton Batman's? I don't think they have dated particularly badly, especially Batman Returns. And TDK will never be liked less than Forever, no chance in hell.

Just you wait...And no. I love the Burton Batman movies...I love all of the ones I've seen*, but they will all look cheesy and badly acted years from now...The Burton entries might even fare slightly better overall.

*I've never seen Batman & Robin nor do I ever intend to...And all this Batman talk makes me wish they would make a NightWing movie.

Yeah, that statement is pretty ridiculous. There is a reason The Dark Knight is as high as it is on IMDB. There is a reason it made that much money without being a PG-13 opportunity to see boobs. It will always be a champion of the public. Maybe not in your circle where all it takes to make a good film is to be overly pretentious, but us regular folk will always love it.

I'm not even talking about me and my taste of movies...I liked TDK, admittedly not as much as most of you guys on here, but I'm saying that as a movie that will truly stand the test of time, it doesn't work. I've seen it about 5 or 6 times, and it definitely DE-preciates with repeat veiwings. The dialogue at some points is just down-right atrocious...add ten years to a movie whose main selling points were a wildly popular and far superior series 'reboot', the death of a rising star in his final completed performance, and some cool special effects and I doubt people seeing it for the first time will see what the big deal is. And we all know the REASON it did so well isn't solely because of the quality of the film itself, and you're kidding yourself if you think the fanboy effect didn't help it out on IMDB at all.

Just look at Speed. I loved that movie back in 1994, and so did pretty much everyone I know who's ever seen it. It was an excellent blockbuster of an action-thriller that helped push the boundaries of the conventions of genre standards and special effects(much like your beloved TDK),but has anyone here seen it recently? It's absolutely laughable. And anyone who says that Speed and TDK can't be compared is just in denial. They're more similar than you want to believe. We'll see if my argument holds in a decade.

And I'm not even gonna bother getting into the pretentiousness that drips, no, oozes from every scene in TDK.

I wasn't saying that the Dark Knight doesn't have its own pretentiousness, just stating that it has a lot more to it than that, and can appeal to general audiences without annoying them with it.

And you are really comparing TDK with Speed? Really? A movie about a bomb on a bus that can't go under a certain speed or it blows up stretched into a feature film starring fucking Keanu? That is all you think The Dark Knight will amount to? With all its themes and undertones? No, its just the same as an exploding bus? TDK didn't even rely on its effects in the slightest. Almost to the point where you don't even notice them. I have seen it just as many times as you and I can say that it has not lost a single bit of appreciation from me.

Of course it wasn't solely because of the quality of the film. But it had to have something to do with it. You don't reach those heights without people seeing the film over and over again. People don't see bad movies over and over again if they don't have some type of high quality (unless of course, they have boobs in them).

geezer9687 wrote:With all its themes and undertones?

Okay, I liked TDK, prob more than IPKI$$ and less than Geez, but I don't see all the themes and undertones everyone keeps talking about in the abstract. Chaos vs. order is not a theme of any real significance, so I figure you mean something more, yet I don't know exactly what it is. If anything, I found it to be excusing the Bush administrations spying on it's citizens as something necessary (which it definitely was not, btw), which would make it quite a horrible message to send. Otherwise, please explain these deep themes and undertones to me, 'cause I didn't see it.

I did see quite a good and well made superhero movie, with a far better than average villain.

i bet if you screened Speed for ANY 8 year old, they'd love it..

The Dark Knight might lose some of its impact over time--but it will always be the standout of the franchise.. same goes for Casino Royale.. it will never be considered "just another" Bond movie

Quite a good converstation broke out after I went to bed last night...

I'm in complete agreeance with IPKI$$. I've been saying this since July 22nd of last year. Yes it's great now, and to me it will always be great, but I won't expect people to watch the movie later down the road and like it as much as I did today. We talked about Speed, look at Robocop, same thing. The Joker will go down as one of the best villians in cinema history and the movie will always but honestly look at how it will be viewed in 20 years.

Sidenote: Moonraker will never be viewed better than Casino Royale.....Just never.....never.

I'm sorry, but I think its kind of pointless to argue with three people who's movie tastes are the complete opposite of mine. It would be like trying to convince an ultra-conservative from Texas that abortion is awesome and the death penalty is wrong. They just aren't going to move in their opinions. I could try, but it would be like me trying to knock over the Empire State Building with my bare hands it seems. Not going to happen.

Ignoring the TDK Genius vs throwaway argument I agree with the following as Classic movies.

Memento
Amelie
Children of Men
Eternal Sunshine
The Departed

And I would add The Boondock Saints and Gran Torino

I still have yet to see The Wrestler and I have Southland Tales on my queue. Should I be moving it up?

Also V and Slevin were both great and I think they could also be well looked at years from now.

Fuck I forgot a few foreign ones that need added.

Downfall

The Lives of Others

The Kite Runner

geezer9687 wrote:I'm sorry, but I think its kind of pointless to argue with three people who's movie tastes are the complete opposite of mine. It would be like trying to convince an ultra-conservative from Texas that abortion is awesome and the death penalty is wrong. They just aren't going to move in their opinions. I could try, but it would be like me trying to knock over the Empire State Building with my bare hands it seems. Not going to happen.

My post wasn't an argument, but a question. Which is still waiting for an answer, actually...

Oh, and Donte, how can you ignore the TDK argument? You've never been one to slink back and shy away before...

My point was, no matter what my answer was, you will disagree with it. You already dismissed one of its major themes as unimportant just in your posing of the question. But I guess I can try for you.

I believe the film's major theme has to do with the internal struggles between our good and our bad sides. The Joker is the embodiment of someone who is pure evil, whose good side has been entirely replaced. Harvey Dent was meant to show how someone who is a pillar of goodness can be twisted to bring out that evil side. Batman himself struggles throughout the film within himself, whether it be his rule against taking a life that he struggles to obey, whether it be with his decision to turn himself in, he is a very conflicted character. Of course, the point is all summed up in the scene of the two boats, where we see the boat of citizens vs. the boat of criminals, where each and every person there is struggling with this very thing. In the end, this scene shows that within us, the good will prevail, as does the ending where Batman prevails over the evil that is the Joker, without having to resort to his level to do it.

Its not a theme that has never been touched on before. However, I feel like for this type of movie, it was something unlike what we had seen before. This was far from just a fluff summer film with no substance behind it. It was a summer film that on its surface can be viewed as a fun action flick that anyone can enjoy. But The Dark Knight has deeper layers to it than that. I feel like the deeper resonating messages, up to the final scene, are what will make the film rewatchable years from now, and will keep it in the upper echelon of films. This film was able to relay a message without losing its sheer entertainment value.

I feel that the film snobs of the world will dismiss something simply because of where it falls on the spectrum. That a blockbuster action movie can not possibly be on the same level as an Oscar bait movie. And just because that is the way it is and always should be. That is why all of the AFI lists look like nothing but old grumpy man lists. Because they don't include anything outside of the typical film snob movies. I feel like the people making these lists are so wrapped up in substance that they forget that they are actually supposed to enjoy themselves. Which is why I try very hard never to start analyzing a film until my second viewing. I like to sit there and enjoy it for what it is first, to see if I actually like the movie. then upon subsequent viewings I can start to pick it apart. If you go into the film attempting to pick it apart at the seems, you will lose the simple fact that this is supposed to be entertaining.

Of course, the majority of the blockbuster action movies have less substance, but The Dark Knight is an exception. I can truly watch it and not even notice the effects. Its a film that can truly be analyzed for a deeper relevance. Can we say that about Transformers? about Armageddon? Probably not. But the case can surely be made for The Dark Knight, which means that they at least did something different than most. You may not believe they succeeded, I of course, do.

Southland Tales was a terrible, terrible movie that was dated before it came out and basically comes off as a two and a half hour propaganda piece.

Meanwhile, I'd have to say:

Requiem For A Dream (2000, the gimmicks may not age well but it will still be the ultimate freak out movie)
Memento (2001)
The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy (2001-2003)
Kill Bill (2003-2004)
Finding Nemo (2003)
Thirteen (2003, the film will be defined as the ultimate teen film for this decade and possibly future decades given the decline of Western Civilization)
Sky Captain and The World Of Tomorrow (2004)
Brokeback Mountain (2005)
Ratatouille (2007)
Wall-E (2008)
The Dark Knight (2008)
Watchmen (2009)

geezer9687 wrote:My point was, no matter what my answer was, you will disagree with it. You already dismissed one of its major themes as unimportant just in your posing of the question. But I guess I can try for you.

I believe the film's major theme has to do with the internal struggles between our good and our bad sides. The Joker is the embodiment of someone who is pure evil, whose good side has been entirely replaced. Harvey Dent was meant to show how someone who is a pillar of goodness can be twisted to bring out that evil side. Batman himself struggles throughout the film within himself, whether it be his rule against taking a life that he struggles to obey, whether it be with his decision to turn himself in, he is a very conflicted character. Of course, the point is all summed up in the scene of the two boats, where we see the boat of citizens vs. the boat of criminals, where each and every person there is struggling with this very thing. In the end, this scene shows that within us, the good will prevail, as does the ending where Batman prevails over the evil that is the Joker, without having to resort to his level to do it.

Its not a theme that has never been touched on before. However, I feel like for this type of movie, it was something unlike what we had seen before. This was far from just a fluff summer film with no substance behind it. It was a summer film that on its surface can be viewed as a fun action flick that anyone can enjoy. But The Dark Knight has deeper layers to it than that. I feel like the deeper resonating messages, up to the final scene, are what will make the film rewatchable years from now, and will keep it in the upper echelon of films. This film was able to relay a message without losing its sheer entertainment value.

I feel that the film snobs of the world will dismiss something simply because of where it falls on the spectrum. That a blockbuster action movie can not possibly be on the same level as an Oscar bait movie. And just because that is the way it is and always should be. That is why all of the AFI lists look like nothing but old grumpy man lists. Because they don't include anything outside of the typical film snob movies. I feel like the people making these lists are so wrapped up in substance that they forget that they are actually supposed to enjoy themselves. Which is why I try very hard never to start analyzing a film until my second viewing. I like to sit there and enjoy it for what it is first, to see if I actually like the movie. then upon subsequent viewings I can start to pick it apart. If you go into the film attempting to pick it apart at the seems, you will lose the simple fact that this is supposed to be entertaining.

Of course, the majority of the blockbuster action movies have less substance, but The Dark Knight is an exception. I can truly watch it and not even notice the effects. Its a film that can truly be analyzed for a deeper relevance. Can we say that about Transformers? about Armageddon? Probably not. But the case can surely be made for The Dark Knight, which means that they at least did something different than most. You may not believe they succeeded, I of course, do.

That was well said. I never saw it purely as a popcorn flick, but prob don't see it as deep as you do. This may come with being a philosophy major in my undergrad. Also, I kind of hate (in general, not in this film per se) the distinction between good and evil that plagues our society. If people didn't have this duality, wars over religion and the such would not take place, as people would not want to judge people who don't see things as they do as "evil".

As for the point I stated in my first post, I wasn't dismissing it, but saying it's a quite horrible argument to make. Saying the last administration was correct to spy on it's own citizens (to continue a war that made them money, let's not forget) is just a false thing to say, as the metaphor just didn't fit enough to make it accurate.

Once again though, very well sstated, Geez. Thanks for the answer.

Buscemi wrote:
Sky Captain and The World Of Tomorrow (2004)

Your pushing it there. I mean I like this film, i even own it, but it's never going to be viewed as a classic.

P.S. agreed about Southland Tales. It was like a rich person who thought they had something important to say, but when you actually heard it, it was nothing important at all.

It isn't that I am avoiding the argument per se, I just don't know if any of the super hero films will ever be considered a classic. Sure TDK had much more substance than the norm, but not much more than Spider-Man with his guilt over inaction which caused death or Iron Man's change of heart about war profiteering...

I can see the main difference being the villain/s in each movie being the tie breaker. I loved Heath Ledger's Joker portrayal but he is a two dimensional drawing compared to Magneto, a jewish prisoner of the Nazi's who now uses his power to keep his "race" from being persecuted again.

I beg to differ. I think the original Superman with Christopher Reeve is a classic. It's been thirty years, and it's still watchable. Granted, Hackman's Luthor chews the scenery as much or more than Nicholson's Joker, but it's still great as a piece of cinema.

Did anyone mention The Matrix yet? That's a classic already.

Geez... I wasn't trying to argue that the movie will suck in the future. We will always look at it as the materpiece that it is. I was referring to how younger generations will view the movie when they watch it for the first time. I will always love it like I love the first Batman, Superman, Terminator, etc. etc. But I think of how I view War of the Worlds, the first one, or Ben-Hur, The Ten Commandants. And those are all great classics but they not viewed today as they were in there year.

BanksIsDaFuture wrote:Did anyone mention The Matrix yet? That's a classic already.

The Matrix came out in 1999.

Buscemi wrote:

BanksIsDaFuture wrote:Did anyone mention The Matrix yet? That's a classic already.

The Matrix came out in 1999.

Meh, close enough

Here is my two cents on this topic. I think of all these that should/will be remembered as classics

Memento
Sin City
Hustle and Flow
The 40 Year Old Virgin
Snatch
Knocked Up
Superbad
Transformers
Spider-Man 2
The Wrestler
No Country For Old Men
Gone Baby Gone
The Departed
Donnie Darko
Pootie Tang