MOVIECLUB #1 - Due Monday 3/30: Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore

I would love to borrow the info. send me a PM please.... I promise i wont give it out to anybody

Looked into it over the weekend and still couldn't find it, but I will participate whenever I can get the relevant movie. I also have some suggestions for other movies to do but will wait until suggestions are asked for (I have so many I don't want to clog things up) or until a method of determining each movie is decided.

mfrendo wrote:
How is your PC incompatible? I know that the streaming won't work with firefox, only with explorer, but I've never heard of a PC being incompatible.

LOL, as a tech geek I have been holding out on Windows 2000 for years, and just this year most companies have finally dropped all support I was trying to wait for Windows 7 to be released because its looking very promising, but got an award from work and decided to use the money to buy a shiny new PC complete with Vista 64-bit, its not great but its not XP at least. My other partition is Linux which unfortunately NONE of the streaming players are compatible with.

I was using Ubuntu for a while, and loved it, but couldn't find a way to get it compatible with my wireless USB internet connection (couldn't find working drivers for the Belkin Wireless USB...).

This is a fantastic idea.. Just a quick suggestion though; to integrate this more with the forum, how about a monthly schedule is voted on at the beginning of the month, and then i will be able to put the movie discussion days in the Calender that is provided, it can be listed under Movie Discussion Event: "name of movie".. etc etc.. and then every Monday a new thread can be started and a discussion begins.

The calender thing can be helpful just in case people forget, it will also remind people of upcoming events.

What do you think Nspan?

That is a great idea Barcs.

I would be up for watching some of these movies. I may even re-watch some that I watched years ago to see if they improved or not.

400 Blows is a good one since I bought it and haven't watched it yet. LOL

Watched Lawrence of Arabia years ago and thought it was not bad but loooonnnngggg.

And I would nominate the director's cut of Das Boot but that might be a bit much (293 minute running time).

BarcaRulz wrote:This is a fantastic idea.. Just a quick suggestion though; to integrate this more with the forum, how about a monthly schedule is voted on at the beginning of the month, and then i will be able to put the movie discussion days in the Calender that is provided, it can be listed under Movie Discussion Event: "name of movie".. etc etc.. and then every Monday a new thread can be started and a discussion begins.

The calender thing can be helpful just in case people forget, it will also remind people of upcoming events.

What do you think Nspan?

i'm all for it.. good idea with the poll and the calendar.. originally, i was planning on just renaming this thread periodically--but that could become pretty messy after a while..

if someone would like to take the reins on this, i'd be happy to go back to being a cheerful participant rather than head honcho..


who's ready to talk about the movie?

Hold off until Wednesday and send me the info to watch the movie and I will be right there. I won't have time to watch it til Wednesday after 5 pm eastern time. But no need to wait for me.

becs wrote:

mfrendo wrote:
How is your PC incompatible? I know that the streaming won't work with firefox, only with explorer, but I've never heard of a PC being incompatible.

LOL, as a tech geek I have been holding out on Windows 2000 for years, and just this year most companies have finally dropped all support I was trying to wait for Windows 7 to be released because its looking very promising, but got an award from work and decided to use the money to buy a shiny new PC complete with Vista 64-bit, its not great but its not XP at least. My other partition is Linux which unfortunately NONE of the streaming players are compatible with.

i'm runnin Vista 64 with no problems at all.. all the apps i like work just fine with it.. and netflix streaming is a breeze

The other thing we could do is set up a time to discuss it on the chat page. Then, whoever could make it would be there to discuss it more quickly...

mfrendo wrote:The other thing we could do is set up a time to discuss it on the chat page. Then, whoever could make it would be there to discuss it more quickly...

damn the chat page for its temporality.. i say, if you're itchin' to get some comments off yer chest about this week's pick, go ahead and get it written down and post it in a Spoiler bubble.. i think that's what i'll do tonight.. that'll give everybody else time to catch up, without me forgetting all the shit i have to say about this movie

Good news. I've found an Australian equivalent of Netflix (Quickflix) and they have Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. I will be signing up this afternoon so should get it soon. I may be a bit late but I will be participating.

NSpan wrote:

BarcaRulz wrote:This is a fantastic idea.. Just a quick suggestion though; to integrate this more with the forum, how about a monthly schedule is voted on at the beginning of the month, and then i will be able to put the movie discussion days in the Calender that is provided, it can be listed under Movie Discussion Event: "name of movie".. etc etc.. and then every Monday a new thread can be started and a discussion begins.

The calender thing can be helpful just in case people forget, it will also remind people of upcoming events.

What do you think Nspan?

i'm all for it.. good idea with the poll and the calendar.. originally, i was planning on just renaming this thread periodically--but that could become pretty messy after a while..

if someone would like to take the reins on this, i'd be happy to go back to being a cheerful participant rather than head honcho..


who's ready to talk about the movie?

Dude, this is all yours. Just email me the movies in advance and i'll put them up on the calendar for you.

BarcaRulz wrote:

NSpan wrote:

BarcaRulz wrote:This is a fantastic idea.. Just a quick suggestion though; to integrate this more with the forum, how about a monthly schedule is voted on at the beginning of the month, and then i will be able to put the movie discussion days in the Calender that is provided, it can be listed under Movie Discussion Event: "name of movie".. etc etc.. and then every Monday a new thread can be started and a discussion begins.

The calender thing can be helpful just in case people forget, it will also remind people of upcoming events.

What do you think Nspan?

i'm all for it.. good idea with the poll and the calendar.. originally, i was planning on just renaming this thread periodically--but that could become pretty messy after a while..

if someone would like to take the reins on this, i'd be happy to go back to being a cheerful participant rather than head honcho..


who's ready to talk about the movie?

Dude, this is all yours. Just email me the movies in advance and i'll put them up on the calendar for you.

ha, okay.

FUCK.. i just wrote a friggin novel about my reaction to the movie, and i lost it when i had to re-login to the forum.. ugh................

i'll take another stab at it tonight...

just posted our first EVER movie-club poll.. i say runners-up can be included in the next poll, along with new nominations

I'll just say this about Alice Doesn't live Here Anymore - INTENSE. I was not expecting that. Anyways, I'll wait to react to Nspan's novel since I can better articulate my thoughts that way.

this isn't quite the novel i had prepared, but here's my thoughts on the film to get the ball rollin':

I friggin' LOVED this movie. I've been a Scorsese superfan for years. After my first viewing of Mean Streets, I went on a bender and watched (or rewatched) Taxi Driver, The Last Waltz, Raging Bull, After Hours, The Last Temptation of Christ, New York Stories, Goodfellas, and Casino.. for some odd reason, I consciously skipped over Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore.. I had this weird perception that it was this old-timey boring romance movie.. the fact that it was filmed between two of my all-time favorites (Mean Streets and Taxi Driver) should've clued me in.. I mean, in terms of Scorsese's artistic career, how could this movie NOT have been great?

That said, I think the final product belongs just as much to Ellen Burstyn as it does Marty himself. He's clearly much more comfortable directing men (see: all of his movies), but he managed to make a woman-centric movie work amazingly well.. my theory (backed by some internet trivia that i'll include later) is that Burstyn herself had a major hand in bringing these female characters to life on screen..

The death of the husband in the beginning was jarring.. As it was surely intended.. but it was very effective even KNOWING that something of the sort was coming.. the actor who plays Tommy does a wonderful job at playing this quirky, annoying-but-lovable child.. even in the scenes where he's meant to come off as particularly grating (to his own mother, at that), the effect is seen through the character and not the actor.. in other words, i typically despise child actors simply because they can rarely ACT.. the presence of a bad child actor (see Terminator 2) can effectively spoil my suspension-of-disbelief and ruin an entire movie for me.. this was not the case here.. Tommy's character is clearly developed (at least by the end of the movie) and his lines are well written and delivered.. Jodie Foster is barely recognizable here as Audrey--hell, she's barely recognizable as a female.. but her presence is welcome, as it helps flesh out Tommy's character--and it provides him a chance to interact with someone apart from his mother and her suitors..

Speaking of her suitors, all three of them (first husband, Keitel, and Whistler--I mean Kristofferson) are great in this.. as i said before, Scorsese is in his own element when directing men.. in fact, only when men are on the screen does it feel like a Scorsese movie (this isn't to mitigate the brilliance of the rest of the film. Scorsese playing against type works great overall).. at first, Keitel's character seemed out of place--as if he had just wandered in from the Taxi Driver set.. but it makes sense once his meltdown scene occurs.. I loved how Scorsese managed to merge such dark dirty grit into an otherwise colorful film.. also, Kristofferson was great just at doing what he does.. and the scene of him breaking a T-Rex record was CLASSIC..

in fact, ALL the music throughout the movie is great.. as is to be expected from Scorsese, of course.. his selections really help with the movie's more modern feel.. part of the reason i put off watching this movie is because i had gotten the vibe that it'd LOOK and FEEL like an old movie.. (imdb's b&w screen-captures of Burstyn and KrisKris kissing by the sunset didn't help this impression).. but, surprisingly, the whole thing came off as a very modern affair.. there are (intentional) moments where the film attempts to retreat into fond americana nostalgia--but, every time, Scorsese reels it back into harsh reality.. every time except, perhaps, the ending.. i adored the ending, but i think it's important to recognize that the film itself is self-conscious of the fleeting perfection of that closing scene.. it's almost as if the movie jumps to the credits preemptively before anything bad can happen and screw up the moment (which, inevitably, WILL happen).. i love it!

also, its a nice touch that they're walking by the Monterey Lounge in those final seconds.. the idea of Alice reaching for some unattainable paradise (that, realistically, could never live up to her memory of it) and then her finding happiness (or some semblance of it) under her own feet is a great story..

everything about the diner is perfect.. Mel (the owner) is an instantly-classic character.. as is Flo--and, thank God, i finally GET the Dumb & Dumber joke!!.. i'm surprised to be saying it, but it makes perfect sense that someone would develop a TV show based around that diner.. hell, it's just itching for an adaptation.. the scene that cuts between Flo and Alice in the bathroom while the restaurant explodes into chaos was brilliant..

that is a good example of what I liked most about this movie: a perfect mixture of comedy and drama.. Scorsese dances on a fine line between the two here, but he pulls it off marvelously.. the picture manages to be hilarious--yet oddly moving at the same time.. in fact, under anyone else's helm, i think i would've dismissed this movie as simply "not my type" after seeing it.. and, really, considering the storyline--this ISN'T my type of movie.. but it just goes to show that ANY genre can produce a great film in the right hands.. (drama...romance...chick-flick??)..

anyway, in hindsight, i guess this wasn't much of a review--more like a list of the things i liked about the movie.. but, hell, not many criticisms spring to mind.. this is Scorsese in his prime! i feel like any minor complaints i may have had come up looking pretty insignificant considering the scope of this film..

as one final note: this movie is a crowning achievement for Ellen Burstyn.. i imagine the story behind the making of this film would make a pretty intriguing movie in its own right.. check out this IMDB trivia:

"Coming hot off her success in The Exorcist (1973), the studio granted Ellen Burstyn total creative control over this project. She had two goals: to make a film about woman with real-life problems, and to secure an up-and-coming film maker as the director. Upon selecting this script, Brian De Palma brought Martin Scorsese to Burstyn's attention. While impressed with Scorsese's talent after viewing Mean Streets (1973), Burstyn still hesitated to hire the director, fearing he could only direct men. When she asked Scorsese what he knew about women, Scorsese replied "Nothing, but I'd like to learn." Satisfied with his enthusiasm, Burstyn immediately hired Scorsese."

ha!

Wow, not much I can say after that NSpan. I too loved the movie. I am a huge Scorsese buff, and even owned this movie via his box set, yet hadn't seen it until now. Part of this reason was I heard it was really depressing, which I didn't find at all to be true.

It was nice to see a well done character movie, which doesn't come around much anymore. Every character in the movie had bad traits along with the good, giving a more well rounded picture of an individual. It's like they intentionally made the audience need to forgive each character's flaws, and understand each character more. It's an internally complex film. Loved it.

NSpan wrote: I had this weird perception that it was this old-timey boring romance movie..

Yeah, I was thinking it was just going to be one little break up story like Kramer vs. Kramer, but it is much more then that.

The death of the husband in the beginning was jarring.. As it was surely intended.. but it was very effective even KNOWING that something of the sort was coming.. the actor who plays Tommy does a wonderful job at playing this quirky, annoying-but-lovable child.. even in the scenes where he's meant to come off as particularly grating (to his own mother, at that), the effect is seen through the character and not the actor.. in other words, i typically despise child actors simply because they can rarely ACT.. the presence of a bad child actor (see Terminator 2) can effectively spoil my suspension-of-disbelief and ruin an entire movie for me.. this was not the case here.. Tommy's character is clearly developed (at least by the end of the movie) and his lines are well written and delivered.. Jodie Foster is barely recognizable here as Audrey--hell, she's barely recognizable as a female.. but her presence is welcome, as it helps flesh out Tommy's character--and it provides him a chance to interact with someone apart from his mother and her suitors..

Wow! Totally missed Jodie Foster! Didn't recognize her at all! I agree, the kid did well. Sure, he was annoying but what little twerps aren't? I like that actually and it helped with my ADD.

Speaking of her suitors, all three of them (first husband, Keitel, and Whistler--I mean Kristofferson) are great in this.. as i said before, Scorsese is in his own element when directing men.. in fact, only when men are on the screen does it feel like a Scorsese movie (this isn't to mitigate the brilliance of the rest of the film. Scorsese playing against type works great overall).. at first, Keitel's character seemed out of place--as if he had just wandered in from the Taxi Driver set.. but it makes sense once his meltdown scene occurs.. I loved how Scorsese managed to merge such dark dirty grit into an otherwise colorful film.. also, Kristofferson was great just at doing what he does.. and the scene of him breaking a T-Rex record was CLASSIC..

in fact, ALL the music throughout the movie is great.. as is to be expected from Scorsese, of course.. his selections really help with the movie's more modern feel.. part of the reason i put off watching this movie is because i had gotten the vibe that it'd LOOK and FEEL like an old movie.. (imdb's b&w screen-captures of Burstyn and KrisKris kissing by the sunset didn't help this impression).. but, surprisingly, the whole thing came off as a very modern affair.. there are (intentional) moments where the film attempts to retreat into fond americana nostalgia--but, every time, Scorsese reels it back into harsh reality.. every time except, perhaps, the ending.. i adored the ending, but i think it's important to recognize that the film itself is self-conscious of the fleeting perfection of that closing scene.. it's almost as if the movie jumps to the credits preemptively before anything bad can happen and screw up the moment (which, inevitably, WILL happen).. i love it!

also, its a nice touch that they're walking to the Monterey Lounge in those final seconds.. the idea of Alice reaching for some unattainable paradise (that, realistically, could never live up to her memory of it) and then her finding happiness (or some semblance of it) under her own feet is a great story..

everything about the diner is perfect.. Mel (the owner) is an instantly-classic character.. as is Flo--and, thank God, i finally GET the Dumb & Dumber joke!!.. i'm surprised to be saying it, but it makes perfect sense that someone would develop a TV show based around that diner.. hell, it's just itching for an adaptation.. the scene that cuts between Flo and Alice in the bathroom while the restaurant explodes into chaos was brilliant..

that is a good example of what I liked most about this movie: a perfect mixture of comedy and drama.. Scorsese dances on a fine line between the two here, but it pulls it off marvelously.. the picture manages to be hilarious--yet oddly moving at the same time.. in fact, under anyone else's helm, i think i would've dismissed this movie as simply "not my type" after seeing it.. and, really, considering the storyline--this ISN'T my type of movie.. but it just goes to show that ANY genre can produce a great film in the right hands.. (drama...romance...chick-flick??)..

anyway, in hindsight, i guess this wasn't much of a review--more like a list of the things i liked about the movie.. but, hell, not many criticisms spring to mind.. this is Scorsese in his prime! i feel like any minor complaints i may have had come up looking pretty insignificant considering the scope of this film..

as one final note: this movie is a crowning achievement for Ellen Burstyn.. i imagine the story behind the making of this film would make a pretty intriguing movie in its own right.. check out this IMDB trivia:

"Coming hot off her success in The Exorcist (1973), the studio granted Ellen Burstyn total creative control over this project. She had two goals: to make a film about woman with real-life problems, and to secure an up-and-coming film maker as the director. Upon selecting this script, Brian De Palma brought Martin Scorsese to Burstyn's attention. While impressed with Scorsese's talent after viewing Mean Streets (1973), Burstyn still hesitated to hire the director, fearing he could only direct men. When she asked Scorsese what he knew about women, Scorsese replied "Nothing, but I'd like to learn." Satisfied with his enthusiasm, Burstyn immediately hired Scorsese."

ha!

And i quoted the rest for truth since well, you just about wrapped it up. I really liked seeing Ellen Burstyn in her younger days. It gave me some perspective, as in that she wa snot just some old lady that harassed people, she was also a loving mother who can handle her shit when it hits the fan.

I guess I can say that I have not seen Scorsese's full film repertoire and this was a cool film to re-introduce me to him after the Infernal Affairs remake.

a few early Scorsese shorts:

What's a Nice Girl Like You Doing in a Place Like This? (1963)


The Big Shave (1967):

Sweet NSpan! I'm gonna have to watch those when I get a quick minute..

just finished Box Car Bertha (1972).. this was Scorsese's second attempt at a full-length, non-documentary picture (the first being Who's That Knocking at my Door in '67)--and it shows.. Roger Corman is producer here, and the end result actually feels like it belongs more to him..

there are brief moments where Scorsese's talent shows through, but he is clearly out of his element here.. unfortunately, Scorsese's unique weaknesses are also visible.. the poorly choreographed fight scenes are underwhelming (just as they are in Mean Streets) and most of the action sequences come off as awkward.. Scorsese is at his best working with the actors, shaping their characters, and making their dialogue more realistic.. there are a few fleeting moments throughout this movie where his natural abilities in this area really shine..

the story itself is a bit schizophrenic: never quite sure what kind of movie it wants to be.. obviously Bonnie & Clyde is the first comparison that comes to mind.. though, i'd say it owes a pretty large debt to Cool Hand Luke as well..

it's nice to finally see David Carradine in a likable role.. he's just always seemed so despicable to me--it was refreshing to find myself rooting for him.. he actually comes off here as a mix between a young Martin Sheen and Burn Notice's Jeffrey Donovan (who, despite a lack of acting skills, is quite charismatic--in a stiff sort of way)..

as i said, the movie is rather disjointed and suffers for it.. i feel like there's a good movie in there somewhere--but Corman's B-movie sensibilities and desire to make an "exploitation" flick ruins it.. for movie buffs and Scorsese-fanatics, it's worth seeing.. for the rest of the world, i'd say Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore can be considered his first genuine film.. (keep in mind, i still haven't seen Who's That Knocking...)

considering the semi-ridiculous ending, it doesn't surprise me to read that the writers of The Omega Man were responsible for this.. i just can't believe they used the same gimmick twice in a matter of two years..

on the positive side, i think this may have helped shape and influence a lot of later movies.. off the top of my head, i would include Matewan, Young Guns I & II, Dead Man, True Romance, and Natural Born Killers..


i found some great trivia for this one, and i think it sums up how most of us can view this movie in relation to the rest of Scorsese's catalogue:

"After he finished this film, Martin Scorsese screened the film for John Cassavetes. Cassavetes, after seeing the movie, hugged Scorsese and said, "Martin, you just spent a year of your life making shit!" He urged him to make a personal film, and the result was Mean Streets (1973)."


ps. if Badlands didn't come out so quickly after this movie, i'd call it a ripoff.. as it is, though, i think Terence Malick's 1973 film is original and far superior

i'm going to give a different perspective. I didn't like this movie as much as others although I appreciated it's quality. As we all know movies and our reaction to them are subjective and personal and I just found it a good movie without that something special to me that makes it a great movie. I find this interesting because I believe that it is through no fault of the movie, it is simply a matter of the time and place that I am at when I watched it. I imagine that at the time this movie would have been very powerful to the audience and something they could relate to. It was realistic and told a story from a viewpoint that wasn't often seen then, and it was a good story. Positive and inspirational but still showing the true struggles and compromises of life. The acting was top quality. Ellen Burstyn's was Oscar worthy, and Harvey Keitel being so menacing after starting off geekily charming was a highlight. The kid was meant to be annoying, and he was, but (paraphrasing Nspan here, I think) he was still likeable. That must be difficult to pull off so I credit a bit of that to the actor as well as the script and director. All the smaller roles seemed just right too. Overall I think this was a really well made quality film would have been a great movie for it's time but personally it is nothing new to me. Nothing that I haven't seen before. Although I will know think of this as one of the earlier great movies with a strong female lead character, way before movies like Thelma and Louise. 6.5/10

As an aside, I love Quickflix (how I got to see this movie). I have already put 400 Blows, Amadeus, Ishtar (have I?) and most of the nominations that I haven't seen high on my queue. I should have joined it a long time ago. It doesn't have Alice though. I sent them an email and suggested it and their response was they would get it if it is available in our region but they don't think it is. Why wouldn't it be? Most of his other movies are. I have seen it before but only once when it first came out.

I've been trying to get a hold of Alice for weeks now Leestu. I'm pretty sure it's not available in Australia. Gonna have to get yourself a good download or an overseas order.