20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

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Re: 20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

Post by IPKI$$ on Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:11 am

I'm just curious as to how many of us have seen it...

I LOVE Keanu Reeves. I know. I know. I've heard every argument against the man that anyone could possibly come up with, and I agree whole-heartedly with every word of it, but I still enjoy watching him do his thing. He's literally the only actor who I can honestly say has never disappointed me with a performance. Most of you will say, "Haha...That's because he's so bad you could never expect him to be any better than absolutely horrible..Haha..." And I love almost every movie of his that I've seen. I actually DO believe Keanu is a great actor, and I have been defending this stance my entire life. I also believe that as a general rule, he makes some pretty damn good movies. The Day the Earth Stood Still, however, might be one of the worse one of the worst movies ever, ever. I really was excited to see this...I even went and saw it in IMAX. I've never seen a movie in IMAX, and I will probably never waste money on it ever again.
It started off alright enough I guess, but since there is no coherent way to trash this movie to people who haven't seen it, I'll just leave it at The Day the Earth Stood Still sucked and watch the original.
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Re: 20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

Post by Swedgin! on Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:58 pm

I LOVE Keanu Reeves. I know. I know.
Well, Hell's bells, MIL0, I love my dog, but I don't think he can act.

I've heard every argument against the man that anyone could possibly come up with, and I agree whole-heartedly with every word of it, but I still enjoy watching him do his thing.
There is something to be said for the apocalyptic majesty of observing a train wreck in slow-motion.

He's literally the only actor who I can honestly say has never disappointed me with a performance.
Personally, I tend to keep my expectations -- in ALL things -- to a bare minimum, so as to avoid having anything fail to actually meet them.

I love almost every movie of his that I've seen.
[Shrug] I think Starship Troopers is sublime genius, Michael Ironside is grossly underrated, and Paul Verhoeven is a savant. Beat that for sheer, gibbering lunatic inexplicability.

I actually DO believe Keanu is a great actor, and I have been defending this stance my entire life.
It takes a particular talent to feign human behavior so convincingly. I am, of course, assuming that Mr. Reeves is actually a high-functioning Val Com.


Baby Keanu in his first family portrait. [Reprinted with permission from the Reeves family estate]

I also believe that as a general rule, he makes some pretty damn good movies.
Even Mickey Rourke has his Wrestler.

The Day the Earth Stood Still, however, might be one of the worse one of the worst movies ever, ever.
You forgot an "ever", and I think you may actually have suffered a stupidity-provoked stroke, there.

...I even went and saw it in IMAX. I've never seen a movie in IMAX, and I will probably never waste money on it ever again.
A turd photographed in high definition is still a turd. Don't confuse format with content.

...[T]here is no coherent way to trash this movie to people who haven't seen it...
Two words: Vogon poetry.

I'll just...watch the original.
Good advice.

Postscript: Nah, I'm kidding. Well, not really. Keanu DID make a few good films, and he was exceptional in both Speed and ALL THREE Matrix films, titles that capitalized on his unique, erm, talents and didn't try to make him do more than he was capable of. He did journeyman work in Bram Stoker's Dracula and Dangerous Liaisons, also films that didn't put him into positions in which he might fail. Overall I feel his BEST performance, however, was in the sadly underloved Constantine, one of the few comic-book adaptations that actually DESERVES to be a full-fledged franchise.

Overall, though, I'd have to paraphrase Douglas Adams when describing Mr. Reeves: You could easily remove his brain and he'd never miss it, all you'd need to do is replace it with a relatively simple electronic one and program it to say, "Whoa!" and "I don't understand" and "Where's my trailer?" and neither he nor anyone else would ever be the wiser.


The Galactic Council mandates that all humans purchase a ticket to see The Day the Earth Stood Stupid. Erm, Still. Thank you for your cooperation.
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Re: 20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

Post by Keyser Soze on Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:38 pm

Swedgin! wrote: Overall I feel his BEST performance, however, was in the sadly underloved Constantine, one of the few comic-book adaptations that actually DESERVES to be a full-fledged franchise.

You are kidding, right? Constantine was just another example of why Alan Moore disassociates himself with any of his properties that someone tries to make into a movie. Constantine was created as a way for moore to get Sting into his comic book, and I'm pretty sure that I am not alone in not imagining Keanu Reeves when I think of Sting. Constantine is a British character, and while I know that Zellweger portrayred the very British Bridget Jones, at least, she tried to feign an accent. Substituting LA for London totally ruined the mood of the movie. As for the acting, only Peter Stormare as Satan gave any kind of watchable performance with Djimon Hounsou coming in a close second.

As for Shia LeBouef, Constantine never had a sidekick so why create one?

This is why Alan Moore is a god, and the folks who try to adapt his idea to the big screen are only pagans.

Looks just like Keanu to me
[img][/img]
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Re: 20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

Post by Swedgin! on Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:19 pm

You are kidding, right?
I'm really, really not. (But, then, remember: I am Starship Trooper's most stalwart and voluble advocate, and I make no secret of my love for Superman Returns, Unbreakable and Judge Dredd, positions that have on occasion caused many to call my sanity into question. Consider the source.)

Constantine was just another example of why Alan Moore disassociates himself with any of his properties that someone tries to make into a movie.
Yeah... And if memory serves, Frank Miller disavowed 300, the Tolkein family roundly criticised Peter Jackson's adaptation of The Lord of The Rings, and George Lucas flat-out hated Irvin Kershner's editing and pacing of The Empire Strikes Back. I try not to confuse one medium's adaptation with another's source material; they stop being one and the same vision at the moment they are conceived, no matter the intentions of the derivative product's helmers. Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet bore only a superficial resemblance to Shakespeare's original work; I, Robot was related to Asimov's seminal novel by name only; David Lynch's Dune is an occasionally fun but essentially blasphemous back-alley abortion of Frank Herbert's brilliant creation; Madonna is not the Virgin Mary; Zack Snyder's Watchmen will emphatically NOT be Alan Moore's Watchmen. No battle plan survives the first thirty seconds of combat; no literary work survives its filmed adaptation unmolested.

...I'm pretty sure that I am not alone in not imagining Keanu Reeves when I think of Sting.
Yeah, well, not to compare the two, but I had a hard time imagining Christian Bale as Batman, too... And I LIKE Christian Bale.

Constantine is a British character, and while I know that Zellweger portrayred the very British Bridget Jones, at least, she tried to feign an accent. Substituting LA for London totally ruined the mood of the movie.

Imagine how complete a disaster Constantine would've been had Reeves tried to pull off a British accent. I'm just sayin'.

Half of Renee's performance was in her thighs, anyway.

As for the acting, only Peter Stormare as Satan gave any kind of watchable performance with Djimon Hounsou coming in a close second.
No argument there... Stormare delivered what has become, for me at least, the ESSENTIAL Satanic performance, much like Bruno Ganz is now the default Hitler, Robert Downey, Jr. embodies Charlie Chaplin and Ben Kingsley is and ever shall be Gandhi in my book. But for me second only to Stormare's Most Unclean ("I miss the old names...") was Tilda Swinton's eye-popping work as the conflicted, asexual, insane Archangel Gabriel, which ranks just slightly below her performance in Michael Clayton for sheer teeth-itching skin-crawlingness. And Gavin Rossdale did well in a minor role as Balthazar.

Note, I'm not advocating an Oscar nom for Reeves here; I'm just saying, I think Constantine was overall his best performance to date, though the second Matrix film comes close. I'm open to discuss it some more.

As for Shia LeBouef, Constantine never had a sidekick so why create one?
That's studio-boardroom logic, there: Reeves is playing a particularly cold and unsympathetic character, one who's too old for Gen-Y'ers to care, and Rachel Weisz -- not a star at the time, not really one now either now that I think about it -- won't bring the chicks in, either. We need a hot, young, chippy talent with a broad under-17 female following to bring the kids in, nevermind that it's an 'R'-rated feature; put someone on the cover of Teen Beat in the film and place him prominently in the trailers, and it'll be a date movie for the high school crowd, which is what this otherwise staid, depressing, sober adult downer really needs to pull in a decent opening weekend. Hey, what about that kid from Project Greenlight? He's cheap, popular and wet behind the ears. Perfect, we got a movie!

This is why Alan Moore is a god, and the folks who try to adapt his idea to the big screen are only pagans.
Okay, well, hero worship aside, I hope you enjoy the color of the sky on your planet. On this one, success in one medium breeds bastardization in others, so if you want Moore to remain unsullied by the sins of mere fallible mortals, please ask him to stop doing quality work. No one notices the mediocre. Except Entertainment Tonight.


"I never broke the law... I broke my career."
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Re: 20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

Post by Keyser Soze on Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:42 pm

Swedgin! wrote:
You are kidding, right?
I'm really, really not. (But, then, remember: I am Starship Trooper's most stalwart and voluble advocate, and I make no secret of my love for Superman Returns, Unbreakable and Judge Dredd, positions that have on occasion caused many to call my sanity into question. Consider the source.)

Liked it, thought it was okay, hated it, not worth a mention

Constantine was just another example of why Alan Moore disassociates himself with any of his properties that someone tries to make into a movie.
Yeah... And if memory serves, Frank Miller disavowed 300, the Tolkein family roundly criticised Peter Jackson's adaptation of The Lord of The Rings, and George Lucas flat-out hated Irvin Kershner's editing and pacing of The Empire Strikes Back. I try not to confuse one medium's adaptation with another's source material; they stop being one and the same vision at the moment they are conceived, no matter the intentions of the derivative product's helmers. Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet bore only a superficial resemblance to Shakespeare's original work; I, Robot was related to Asimov's seminal novel by name only; David Lynch's Dune is an occasionally fun but essentially blasphemous back-alley abortion of Frank Herbert's brilliant creation; Madonna is not the Virgin Mary; Zack Snyder's Watchmen will emphatically NOT be Alan Moore's Watchmen. No battle plan survives the first thirty seconds of combat; no literary work survives its filmed adaptation unmolested. [/quote]

Miller never disavowed 300. In fact, he was rather pleased by it.

...I'm pretty sure that I am not alone in not imagining Keanu Reeves when I think of Sting.
Yeah, well, not to compare the two, but I had a hard time imagining Christian Bale as Batman, too... And I LIKE Christian Bale.[/quote]

It's not so much a question of imagining Christian Bale as Batman, but as Bruce Wayne. Once the cape and cowl go on, it could be James Cromwell under it, and it wouldn't matter. I always thought Bale would make a good Bruce Wayne

Constantine is a British character, and while I know that Zellweger portrayred the very British Bridget Jones, at least, she tried to feign an accent. Substituting LA for London totally ruined the mood of the movie.

Imagine how complete a disaster Constantine would've been had Reeves tried to pull off a British accent. I'm just sayin'. [/quote]

My point exactly for why Reeves should not have been chosen to play the part.

Half of Renee's performance was in her thighs, anyway.

I'd say way more than half

As for the acting, only Peter Stormare as Satan gave any kind of watchable performance with Djimon Hounsou coming in a close second.
No argument there... Stormare delivered what has become, for me at least, the ESSENTIAL Satanic performance, much like Bruno Ganz is now the default Hitler, Robert Downey, Jr. embodies Charlie Chaplin and Ben Kingsley is and ever shall be Gandhi in my book. But for me second only to Stormare's Most Unclean ("I miss the old names...") was Tilda Swinton's eye-popping work as the conflicted, asexual, insane Archangel Gabriel, which ranks just slightly below her performance in Michael Clayton for sheer teeth-itching skin-crawlingness. And Gavin Rossdale did well in a minor role as Balthazar.[/quote]

My bad for forgetting Gavin Rossdale's performance which was quite good, but boy are we gonna have to agree to disagree on Swinton's. Nothing screamed more of "Hey, it's a paycheck" than her performance in this movie.

Note, I'm not advocating an Oscar nom for Reeves here; I'm just saying, I think Constantine was overall his best performance to date, though the second Matrix film comes close. I'm open to discuss it some more.

While obviously The Matrix trilogy would rank above this one, I'd happily rate Point Break above this one too. After that we'er just quibbling over degrees of suckitude (Chain Reaction anyone?)

As for Shia LeBouef, Constantine never had a sidekick so why create one?
That's studio-boardroom logic, there: Reeves is playing a particularly cold and unsympathetic character, one who's too old for Gen-Y'ers to care, and Rachel Weisz -- not a star at the time, not really one now either now that I think about it -- won't bring the chicks in, either. We need a hot, young, chippy talent with a broad under-17 female following to bring the kids in, nevermind that it's an 'R'-rated feature; put someone on the cover of Teen Beat in the film and place him prominently in the trailers, and it'll be a date movie for the high school crowd, which is what this otherwise staid, depressing, sober adult downer really needs to pull in a decent opening weekend. Hey, what about that kid from Project Greenlight? He's cheap, popular and wet behind the ears. Perfect, we got a movie![/quote]

Shia LeBouef had done "Holes" and "The Battle of Shaker Heights" before this movie. Somehow that just doesn't seem to be the resume that studio execs would use to draw anyone into a theater.

This is why Alan Moore is a god, and the folks who try to adapt his idea to the big screen are only pagans.
Okay, well, hero worship aside, I hope you enjoy the color of the sky on your planet. On this one, success in one medium breeds bastardization in others, so if you want Moore to remain unsullied by the sins of mere fallible mortals, please ask him to stop doing quality work. No one notices the mediocre. Except Entertainment Tonight.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more with you on the ET aspect, but as for Moore, his problem is not that he's turning out exceptional work, it's that he turns it out for people who have no trouble selling off his work to other media. That's why he accepts none of his share of any revenues his ideas generate from films. He gave all of his share of V for Vendetta to the artist and is doing the same thing for Watchmen.

BTW - the color of the sky in my world is beyond description sunny
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Re: 20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

Post by Swedgin! on Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:16 am

Miller never disavowed 300. In fact, he was rather pleased by it.
You're right... It was Alan Moore who hated on V for Vendetta, a film it took me some time to appreciate but now frankly love. I'll let my previous misstatement stand, though... Never claimed to be perfect, only better than you. (The general, nonspecific "you". You, over there, you people.) [Grin]

Damn, I forgot the first rule of holes: When in one, stop digging.

Once the cape and cowl go on, it could be James Cromwell under it, and it wouldn't matter.
For some reason I have this image in my head of Batman saying, "Move over, cabbage."

I always thought Bale would make a good Bruce Wayne...
No question. It's Batman I thought he'd have a hard time personifying... Much the same way I feel about Michael Keaton in the same role. of course, Bale is to Batman what Daniel Craig is to Bond and Heath Ledger is to Joker... The ultimate fulfillment, rendering all future recasting not only unnecessary, but wholly undesirable. F@$%in' clone 'em an' stick 'em in Wu's meat locker, save 'em an' preserve 'em for future generations.

...[Boy] are we gonna have to agree to disagree on Swinton's. Nothing screamed more of "Hey, it's a paycheck" than her performance in [Constantine].
You know something? You're absolutely right: Boy, are we gonna have to disagree. [Grin] And how.

[We're] just quibbling over degrees of suckitude...
[Laughing] Story of my life, Keyser. Story of my life.

(Chain Reaction anyone?)
Erm, no, thanks. Vogon poetry is a far kinder fate.

Shia LeBouef had done Holes and The Battle of Shaker Heights before this movie. Somehow that just doesn't seem to be the resume that studio execs would use to draw anyone into a theater.
I hear ya, but you're gonna have to trust me on this one. He was on the radar long before even Greenlight / Shaker Heights, owing to noteworthy roles on Touched by An Angel, The X Files, Freaks and Geeks and, most impressively, ER.

...Moore['s], problem is not that he's turning out exceptional work, it's that he turns it out for people who have no trouble selling off his work to other media. That's why he accepts none of his share of any revenues his ideas generate from films. He gave all of his share of V for Vendetta to the artist and is doing the same thing for Watchmen.
Interesting, he reminds me a little of Dave Sim in that regard... You seem pretty well informed, I'm going to look forward to speaking in more detail with you about graphic novels and genre projects in general. Good stuff.


Swedgin! eases into a nice, hot bath at the end of yet another stressful day.
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Re: 20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

Post by Keyser Soze on Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:28 am

Most definitely. I would look forward to discussions on the world of graphic literature with you. As for Dave Sim, he's been a friend of mine(His opinions of the female species not withstanding) since the early days of Cerebus, trust me, he would be more than flattered to have ben mentioned in the same sentence as Alan Moore.
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Re: 20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

Post by Swedgin! on Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:04 am

Yeah, I met Dave at some book signing about ten years back, as he was heading out of turn four in the Cerebus saga; I think that was when he was pimping either the Reads or Minds "phone books", though I may be off by a title or two. I remember, his girlfriend (?) at the time, some long-haired raven-headed chick if I remember aright, conducted an impromptu trivia contest before the event which I won, earning me an autographed Jaka's Story poster which I promptly lost. He was very brittle generally, obviously sick to death of the promotion game (can't blame him there) and enormously annoyed by flattery, and insisted on giving all the credit for Cerebus' popularity to Gerhard. I gathered that he despised the U.S., hated "stardom" and wished the title had never courted the runaway success and notoriety it eventually earned. I wish I'd met him when he wasn't so completely pissed off at the world in general and everybody in it in particular. [Shrug]

This misogynist tag hacks me off, though. I think he's been pretty consistent in showcasing the ignorance, hypocrisy and essential worthlessness of pretty much everybody, so I can't figure why that makes him a woman-hater, specifically. Although I admit I'm not as read in on the issue as a lot of other people seem to be. I just generally assume that geniuses, the wealthy, the powerful, the exceptionally creative and the popular are daffy, twisted, unlikeable dipshit bastard asshole motherf@$%ers, until proven otherwise, so it's no big deal to me to find out someone whose talents I admire is a twat. Assume the worst, dismiss the best, suspect it all and screw the rest. That's my motto, or it would be, if I had a motto.


You had me at, "Hello".

Postscript: "Cerebus" was my second choice for new AlternaFantaverse "handle". Third-runner-up was "Citizen Dick", followed closely by "Rasputin" and "Steve Dallas".


This is not Dave Sim
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Re: 20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

Post by Keyser Soze on Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:05 am

You seemed to have nailed Dave exactly. He is all of those things and more. I'll never forget the day that he told me what his definition of popular was. It just means "Well known amongst folks who like that sort of thing". He was always a right bastard even in his pre-I'm pissed at the world and everyone in mood, but a hell of a guy to sit down, have a drink (Or many) and shoot the shit with.

You sound like you would be the same sort.


Cheers.

PS Steve Dallas would have been a great handle to use.
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Re: 20th Century Fox exploring new frontiers

Post by Swedgin! on Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:03 am

You seemed to have nailed Dave exactly.
He wasn't in the mood for that, really.

He is all of those things and more.
Well, whatever else he might be, I'm fairly certain he's one of the more exceptionally perceptive, and exceedingly well-read, people on the planet. I'd call him "brilliant" except that I honestly don't know anymore where smartness ends and the ability to instantly recognize bullshit for what it is begins. He would definitely be in my list of twelve people, living, dead or unconcerned, to invite for a dinner party.

I'll never forget the day that he told me what his definition of popular was. It just means "Well known amongst folks who like that sort of thing".
I rather suspect he'd get along well with Hemingway, Twain and Neil Peart, all of whom would also be invited, although Peart's a moody sonofabitch and the other two could probably drink me under the table.

He was always a right bastard even in his pre-I'm pissed at the world and everyone in mood, but a hell of a guy to sit down, have a drink (Or many) and shoot the shit with. You sound like you would be the same sort.
[Bowing] You compliment me, sir. I'm fairly moody, but actually quite an optimist, generally. I live in hope of resurrection and eternal life, but, failing that, will settle for the arrival of a five-mile-wide nickel-iron planetoid in the short term.

Plan for the best, hope for the worst, I say.

Cheers.
You, too, pal.

PS Steve Dallas would have been a great handle to use.
Agreed, but Swedgin! is even more appropriate for yours truly.


A good day
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