Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by BanksIsDaFuture on Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:42 am

Anyone who says the Twins aren't racist is foolin' themselves. It's not an opinion, anything making fun of racial stereotypes is racist. Yes, Keyser, this includes White Chicks, the Sitcom Father thing is stereotype I guess, but it's not racial. Maybe the White Chicks wasn't offensive to me because I'm Black, but the Twin's are SO much more offensive because there is a long history of America making fun of Blacks for entertainment. To see anything that resembles that is highly violatale (sp) and Bay and Paramount should've known better.

And sorry Buscemi, but I saw Transformers again today and I didn't think it was as bad as I originally thought. Sorry to be flip-flopper, but take out the Twins and severly edit everything that happens in Egypt and it's as good as the first. But these things are there, so it's nowhere as good as the first.
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Buscemi on Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:50 am

You ever seen Transformers: The Movie? That is the definitive Transformers movie. No bullshit, no unnecessary action sequences, Megan Fox or GM ads. Just the Transformers the way that they should be seen.

Also Geezer, so what if I underpredicted Angels and Demons and Fast and Furious among other things? You've had your share of bad predictions also (such as calling Beverly Hills Chihuahua and Marley and Me flops).

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by geezer9687 on Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:24 am

I never called those movies flops, and I had Beverly Hills Chihuahua on several slates. I didn't think Marley and ME would be THAT big, but I didn't think it would flop. The difference is, every time you hate a movie, you think that everyone else is going to agree with you and not see it. You base your predictions on your predictions of a films quality. I certainly have been wrong in the past, but not because I refuse to acknowledge that the general public will like something that I hate.

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Buscemi on Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:33 am

Remember the first tag team league? You refused to put Beverly Hills Chihuahua on your end of the slate because you said it looked terrible. I put it on there because I knew people would eat it up. I saved your ass that time!

Also, I correctly predicted that Twilight would be big - a good six months before it opened. While most of you guys tagged it as a flop, I figured that the film had an audience due to the plot (vampires in love) and the popularity of the book (which dawned me only a month before its trailer was released). And if I remember Geezer, you were on the "Twilight will flop" bandwagon.

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by geezer9687 on Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:48 am

If I remember, and Shryke can pull up the records if he has them, Twilight carried me to a good run at the Ultimate Super League titles. You are completely right about BHC, but the thing is, even if I think something looks terrible, when it starts tracking well, I don't stubbornly hold my ground and say it will fail, regardless of all information to the contrary. I adjust accordingly. That's how I've been able to keep afloat in every super league until the box office half year this year, which I really have to hand it to those that made it, what a challenging tournament that has been! Good job!

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Buscemi on Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:56 am

In other news, are you going to join the new Tag Team league?

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Shrykespeare on Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:39 pm

Which records do you need from me?

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by geezer9687 on Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:07 pm

I was half kidding Shryke, although I still think there should be a place on here where you can put up results from all the leagues you have in your archives. And I don't think so Boush, I think I'm just going to stick to the regulars, super leagues and a draft league every three months. Hopefully I cause less problems that way.

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by BanksIsDaFuture on Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:25 pm

From what I remember, EVERYONE thought BHC wouldn't do well. Not until the week or so before, when the tracking came in.
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by jess_sayin on Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:30 pm

I guess Transformers:ROTF did make it over the $200 mil mark for the 5-day. According to BOM today.
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by geezer9687 on Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:49 pm

Yup, and the Hurt Locker killed in the PTA race! Glad I stuck with that one!

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by J.I. on Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:48 pm

Biggest Wednesday ever, second biggest day ever, biggest non-opening Thursday ever (even bigger than Indiana Jones), tenth biggest Friday ever and biggest non-opening Friday ever, eighth biggest Saturday ever, sixth biggest Sunday ever. Fourth biggest 3-day, 2nd biggest 4-day, 2nd biggest 5-day, tied for fastest to $200 million with TDK, biggest June opening weekend ever beating HP3's $93.8 million (and it opened on a Friday), 7th biggest opening weekend ever, behind movies that all opened on a Friday, beat Wolverine for biggest opening of the year, third highest-grossing movie of the year behind Up and Star Trek, biggest IMAX opening ever by far making $14.4 million 5-day, outgrossed the original's first 11 days, led the box office to the fourth biggest total weekend ever with $195 million, etc.
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Shrykespeare on Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:57 pm

Jeez. I hope HP6 can do as well.

But there's still a chance that Transformers will have a big drop, enough so that IA3 will take the crown next week.

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by J.I. on Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:11 am

I think Ice Age 3 will be big, so it won't be suprising at all if it wins.
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Buscemi on Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:14 am

Early prediction for Transformers' second week: $47 million.

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by W on Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:42 am

BanksIsDaFuture wrote:Anyone who says the Twins aren't racist is foolin' themselves. It's not an opinion, anything making fun of racial stereotypes is racist. Yes, Keyser, this includes White Chicks, the Sitcom Father thing is stereotype I guess, but it's not racial. Maybe the White Chicks wasn't offensive to me because I'm Black, but the Twin's are SO much more offensive because there is a long history of America making fun of Blacks for entertainment. To see anything that resembles that is highly violatale (sp) and Bay and Paramount should've known better.

And sorry Buscemi, but I saw Transformers again today and I didn't think it was as bad as I originally thought. Sorry to be flip-flopper, but take out the Twins and severly edit everything that happens in Egypt and it's as good as the first. But these things are there, so it's nowhere as good as the first.

I'm not a fan of racial sterotypes and I haven't seen ROTF yet, but... I tend to believe that many films have racial sterotypes. Undercover Brother had stereotypes for whites and blacks and no one complained. Many other films have all Italians/blacks being criminals while the white anglo-saxons are the rightous law enforcers. RDJ's performance in Tropic Thunder--as well as the real black guy with the Booty Sweat energy drink--struck a nerve with me and helped to ruin the film for me. That's my opinion and its fine. Gold toothed robots wouldn't ruin a film for me, unless it was really horribly done which it seems to be. Things that strike a nerve with me on this topic are when every Arab person is a terrorist in a film, every Republican is portrayed as either a hillbilly or snobby rich guy, every Democrat is portrayed as a tree hugger/hippie/etc, and etc.

All in all, its personal opinion.

BTW: You're black? The other day I was wondering, "Most all of the people in the Fantaverse are male, but is there a single minority here besides gender?" Shows you how much I know or care, though I believe even people with an 'open mind' do have some sort of racial profile in the back of their mind. For me, though it's more about appearance than skin color. The "all white people eat mayonaise" profile from Undercover brother should be different for a hillbilly than a slick Wall Street type. The "black=thug" profile would be different for a man in a suit than a teenager wearing their pants around their knees and using profanities every third word.

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W can i state that you are a genius. I dont know how you do it dude. They should have doing the tracking instead of those other idiots. - transformers2
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Keyser Soze on Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:58 pm

mfrendo wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:I could list any number of sit coms from the Cosby Show to Home Improvement to Malcolm in the Middle where the father was always made to look like the idiot.

Do the Wayans Brothers comments on race in their work have any more validity than Michael's Bay's response to the criticism of "The Twins"?

I would love to know what you wrote in your paper about the character of Hesch.

Most people (And I'm making a mass generalization here) only see bigotry and stereotypes when it is against them. They usually never see them when they are made against others.

Umm...first, yes the Wayan bros. commenting on race has way more validity then Michael Bay saying "uhh...they're not racist, I swear". One is art to make a point and the other is an asshole getting caught and not wanting to lose face/money from what his movie says. I'm kind of sad that I have to explain that actually.

Second, I'm white, so the bigotry isn't against me, yet I still see it and am avidly against it. Once again, I feel bigotry effects everyone...as for the "if you can be offended, you should be" line, it sounds like alot of the rich asshole fratboys I saw around college who would say fucked up shit about girls/other races/sci-fi & comic "geeks" and say something like that as their defense.

Don't really care if you'er white, black, green or red. That has nothing to do with the point. The point was that we only see racism, prejudice or bigotry where we want to. We overlook the things that don't bother us or that we fail to realize are, in fact offensive.

Please do not confuse anything the Wayans brothers do as art. Minorities aren't the only ones who can talk about racism or even claim it. You can still be in the majority and experience racism. As one who has experienced it personally (My family was Jewish), I am very familiar with it.

You never responded to my question about what you said in your Sopranos' paper about the character of Hesch. Makes me think you didn't even realize it was a stereotype.

As for the "If you can be offended" comment, you couldn't be more wrong if you had set out to be. The comment was made by a guy who was as far from a frat boy as you and I seem to be on this point. He could be Alan Moore's twin, was a philosophy major and most likely never ventured with 100 yards of a frat house. He was/is the sci-fi/comic geek you think was being made fun of.

Guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm totally in line with Geezer's opinion that the movie would have been much better off without The Twins but only because they were just stupid characters to begin with not because of anything racial.
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by mfrendo on Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:04 pm

I'm fine to agree to disagree at this point.

As far as Sopranos thing, I honestly didn't answer cause I have no idea. I wrote the paper in the middle of undergrad, so like probably 7 years ago or so. I only remember that it's main topic was on mixing genres (like a mobster seeing a shrink) and that it was only on the first two or three seasons. Beyond that, I have no idea what I wrote in that thing.
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Donte77 on Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:59 pm

Actually I remember taking BHC on a bunch of slates because that was around the time I coined my strategy of "Taking movies that suck since the general populace will see them" even though I wouldn't watch them with your eyeballs. This is the same reason I have G-Force on a bunch of slates this year. Smile

now on to the dominant topic...

The problem with stereotypes is that they are true in some cases. Not all cases but some. And entertainment sometimes uses these stereotypes to make the job of writing easier. Writing is fucking hard, I know this personally. Using stereotypes makes that easier when you are writing multiple characters, especially when they may be different from you. I am not justifying it, just stating why I think people use stereotypes in movies, tv, books.
The writer's of Transformers are getting hit huge because they had two robots that were caricatures of black thugs. BUT are you honestly telling me that these 'pants around their thighs, gold tooth, street talking thugs' do NOT exist??? They do exist, I have seen them and they dominate the radio charts. See Lil Wayne;
http://on221.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/lil-wayne-wtf.jpg

Not all Italians are mobsters but all mobsters are Italian. See John Gotti;
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2007/10/25/amd_gotti.jpg

Not all southerners are rednecks but most rednecks live in the South. See Britney Spears at Rehab; http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/bald-britney-spears-rehab-2.jpg

Stereotypes exist because there is truth in them to some extent. There will always be stereotypes and there will always be people who are not stereotypical.

I am not saying that this makes the writers of the movie less racist (or at least not less lazy) but they are only being called out because it was a huge budget movie seen by people of all colors and not a genre or race or religious specific movie that would only have a specific audience. How many non-christians expressed outrage at the movies Left Behind or Fireproof? None, because we didn't go see those fucking movies. How many childless 30 year olds complained about how bad Beverly Hills Chihuahua was? None, because we didn't go see that fucking movie either.

I am sure that someone somewhere would be offended by every character in any movie at one time.

The dumb football jock.
The geeky science nerd that can't get laid.
The rich good looking cheerleader bitch.
The punk with a bad home life.
The weird girl that no one understands.

I bet every one of us knew a few of these stereotypes in high school. This is also the cast of The Breakfast Club. Should I be offended by the movie because I was an athletic science nerd or because I was a smart jock or because I was the weird kid that no one understood but was also smart and athletic but shy??? No, because I don't give a shit that these characters were stereotypes because the movie was well written and funny. I was a conglomeration of pieces and parts of all of these characters and so I could identify with them all in different ways.

I understand why some people are upset about the racist portrayal on screen by two characters voiced by a couple of guys (one white dude [Spongebob Squarepants]and one black dude [who made his start in TV shows full of stereotypes; Fresh Prince, Coach, Martin]) and that are made entirely of pixels. I just don't see what all the fuss is about.

Is this the most pressing concern on the planet right now? Climate change, economic collapse, out of control wars around the planet (based on either oil, terrorism or religion depending on who you ask) and we mention them not a once by a hack director (who we all know makes badly written, spectacular looking FX movies) includes a racist portrayal and we devote 6 pages to this story?

Racism exists. Bigotry exists. War exists. Death exists. Our planet is falling apart. People die of heart attacks and cancer and head trauma everyday but they get no mention.

The real crime here is that Transformers 2 was supposed to be an escape from the ugliness of our world and instead it just showed that ugliness transfers onto the big screen through the writers, directors, actors in a larger than life way.
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by mfrendo on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:08 pm

I'm totally down to discuss more important topics. I try to all the time, yet most people don't want to know what's going on, actually choosing to live in ignorance. Hell, some will, say "i don't want to know, because then I wouldn't feel good about what I'm doing", in more or less words. Go ahead and start one, and I'll join in.

Second, not all mobsters are Italian. The Irish Mob is pretty damn big, and many mobsters were jewish (Meyer Lansky, Bugsy Siegel), while some were also Sicilian, which is not quite italian.

But the fact that you think all are italian is exactly the problem with stereotypes that we're talking about.
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Donte77 on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:14 pm

And now back to your regularly scheduled program.
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Donte77 on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:31 pm

mfrendo wrote:
Second, not all mobsters are Italian. The Irish Mob is pretty damn big, and many mobsters were jewish (Meyer Lansky, Bugsy Siegel), while some were also Sicilian, which is not quite italian.

But the fact that you think all are italian is exactly the problem with stereotypes that we're talking about.

Obviously in this case I am referring to the Italian Mob that was discussed earlier in the Sopranos portion of the thread. While we are on the subject, is the term Jewish used for a race or a religion? In the religious case, I am sure there are Jewish Italians in the Italian mob. Wink

Also, Sicily has been a region of Italy since the late 1800's. So yes, Sicilians, are technically Italian while still being Sicillian. That is like me saying that I am a Hoosier because I am from Indiana and not an American. I am both by definition as well as an Earthling (debatable by most standards...)

I do concede that I should have worded the Mob line a bit more vague as I did with the other two. So;
Not all Italians are mobsters but all heads of the Italian mob are Italian. Better? LOL

Although the reason we never debate any real subjects on the boards is that we try to stay friendly on the forums. Serious discussions will break into arguments 95% of the time.

Example. Ask a cross section of people why we are bombing Iraq and you will get separate and different answers and all of them believe they are correct and will argue violently that the others are wrong. We just discuss movies here to avoid this. Smile
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by geezer9687 on Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:05 am

That was an all-timer Donte. Brilliantly written, expressed your point thoroughly without being pretentious, and I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't possibly have said it better than that eloquently written piece. Thanks for that brilliant post. I think we're all better off having read it, whether we agree with it or not.

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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Donte77 on Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:48 am

Well thanks Geez. We shall see if everybody holds my post in such high regard since I essentially shit on the Cheerios of this discussion by voicing my opinion that it was trivial. Smile

As my bio on Shryke's Movie Review site states, I like fan and hate mail equally. LOL
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Tracking

Post by Buscemi on Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:52 am

To me, Beverly Hills Chihuahua looked racially insensitive to the Hispanic community and an example of Hollywood refusing to make movies where they aren't glorified stereotypes. In a way, it could have been called Taco Bell Dog: The Movie.

Also, it looked godawful.

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