The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by undeadmonkey on Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:06 am

oh, well if its a compliment, ha ha, i should of guessed, you did have that smiley face after it.

I'm against having ALL of the movies info in the capsules as well, but i dont think that it's going to be that much. Maybe we should wait until Swedge does his test run with the 1/30 releases, and we can vote for what we like and what we dont.
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Donte77 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:13 am

johnErle wrote: Do the Dallas Cowboys share their playbook with other teams before a game? I think not.

They would if they knew that their offense was going to be using New York's playbook that week. Smile
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Keyser Soze on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:34 am

Donte77 wrote:
johnErle wrote: Do the Dallas Cowboys share their playbook with other teams before a game? I think not.

They would if they knew that their offense was going to be using New York's playbook that week. Smile

Who are these two teams of which you speak??????


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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by silversurfer19 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:48 am

Some, well quite a lot of, responses:

Swedgin! wrote: All right, then: If the Shrykester, Information Meister, Indianapolis Smith, Herald, and Barky (the "Furious Five" Elders of the AlternaFantaverse


Enough with the 'Elder', I'm only 26, I don't wanna be old or indeed wise before I'm due. I plan on having crazy eyebrows and nose hairs trailing all over my face before I'm referred to as an elder. Or am I already like that. Is that what marriage has done to me already.....

...."information capsules" (if anyone feels creative and wants to suggest a better name for 'em, by all means, let's hear it!).

How 'bout Swedge-O-Matic's Screen Gems?


(r. to l.) Indie Jones, silversurfer, Shryke, Mister Informative (top), BarcaRulz (bottom), and, erm, Missus Swedgin! [ducking]

That's better, I get the cool character. Cool


...How's that sound to you guys?

I didn't hear anything.

ARE YA WITH ME?

Echo. Echo. Echo

Barca wrote:Anyway, i am on board with the information capsules. We can get a prototype going, and next time i have a little time i'll make the sub-forum for them. I'll put it where the columns and advice topics are.

Can we stick the Weekend Actuals thread I have created in there too, it needs somewhere more official than where it currently resides.

JohnErle wrote:EDIT: And another thing to consider is that the first time you make a mistake or neglect to mention some key piece of information, you might have people accuse you of sabotaging their slates.

Nico, sorry Swedgin, a saboteur?? Never. Maybe a little senile, which may affect his information, but never a saboteur Wink

UDM wrote:I don't think the "fend for themselves" idea is working too great. Takes too much time to really pick a good slate.

I'm with you UDM. If we in any way going to broaden our base of players, we have to make at least the introduction to the game simple enough. It's hard enough, and time consuming enough as it is, for us regular players. We will never expand the game if we don't make it easy to follow. Yes, I understand we don't want to lose the competition, but I for one very rarely paid any attention to the capsules other than to find out who was in it. I doubt they will offer an advantage to somebody less experience just by looking at them. And especially so as Swedgin has never, as he admitted himself recently, even won a game. Hardly an advert for success is he? [ducks]

I think, as long as the information is kept concise enough to maintain the competition of the game, all those categories listed are valid.

JohnErle wrote:Yes, albeit with a bit more snark and a higher word count than I would have used.
SNAP!

Also, my worry is that too much information will lead to too many people choosing the exact same slates, leading to eight-way ties atop most leagues.

I don't think this scenario has EVER happened, and I doubt the little bits of information Swedgin provides will change that any time soon.

Swedgin wrote:This is a game, not a job.

Did I not receive the memo.... And where is my stapler?

Responding (very briefly for once)...

Yeah, right. I'll believe that when I see it. [GRIN]

JohnErle wrote:To be honest, I've never been thrilled with the fact that we've got three regular contributors offering hot tips for the week. I understand that FM was selling advertising, and if more people were visiting the site to read the various columns, then it was better for business, but now it only serves to make the game easier for everyone. Unless the columnists are consistently wrong, in which case they're making things more difficult, which is fine by me.

Actually, I enjoy reading their columns, mainly because I enjoy reading their thoughts on the films in release. It's no different from reading what everyone discusses on the forums, just minus the digressions (well, apart from when Nico was writing...). I never pick my movies soley on what the columnists comment on, but it does provoke discussion, which really, is what we are all here for.

What may be common sense to you might be something that other players wouldn't have thought of in a million years. Why make things easier for them?

Because we need all the help we can get. [wink]

As long as you're entering into it knowing what's in store. Honestly, though, I can see you pouring hours and hours into this, just like Skryke and others are already doing, and if I see the community taking advantage of that and never thanking you and the others for what they do and whining about every little omission, I might start to sour on the Fantaverse as a whole. I've seen it before where some people are willing to give, give, give while the rest simply take, take, take, and I don't like being around that. Hopefully that
won't happen here.

I don't think it will. Everyone on these games gives a little and takes a little, it's what makes the world go round.

In the interest of full disclosure, I should probably point out that before this discussion had even begun I'd already decided to stop playing Ultimate Leagues

You want competition, yet you don't compete in the Ultimate leagues? They are the hardest leagues y'know...

It's fun to try and predict, but I doubt Clint Eastwood is crying over the fact that Defiance won the PTA crown this weekend while playing in all of 2 theatres.

I'd have liked to be round Clint's house if he was though: [Clint] "Damn you Bond, Damn you to hell. I was sure my Academy gun totin' was gonna win me the crown again! I'll get you next time, Mr. Bond"

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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Swedgin! on Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:10 am

Ohhh... kay. Everybody back to their corners for a minute. Great googly-moogly. I leave the room for five friggin' minutes, and a food fight breaks out. [Grin]

I want to say a couple things here. First, it's wonderful to see this much give-and-take; if ever any of you doubted whether there was enough passion or interest to move forward with the game, with this place, after the events of the last month or so, I hope conversations like this put that notion to rest and give everyone confidence that we're going to be all right moving forward. The passions stirred up by this debate have been really something to see, and also the level of consideration and introspection and thought being put into what I had (mistakenly) first thought to be a relatively trivial and inconsequential matter. I'm very glad to have been set straight on that account.

However, second, it's the unrestrained and provocative expression of said passions that is beginning to worry me a bit. God knows I'm wont to tease, but what's going on here right now seems to be pushing somewhat beyond just the innocent quip or the grinning flame; there's an undercurrent of nastiness beginning to develop here, and, forgive me for assuming the role of daddy and disciplinarian, but I'd like it to stop, now, please. There's no need for it, and maybe I'm wrong about the way this is going, but I fear we're about to, in the words of Apollo 13 mission commander Jim Lovell, "bounce off the walls for ten minutes just to end up right back where we started", and, erm, no, we won't. And if anyone has a problem with me saying that, or feels singled out in any way by what I'm saying now, or thinks I'm being rude and overbearing and obnoxious, well, TOUGH. It's time to remember that we're all here for a reason, and that's to compete against each other in an atmosphere and environment of civility and enthusiasm and occasional fraternal bantering, and why we're NOT the IMDb Message Boards, nor the AICN Forum, nor the Television Without Pity forums, which are a haven and an asylum and a breeding ground for malcontents and contrarians and ne'er-do-wells and spiteful little trolls and spoor-flinging retarded spider monkeys (no offense, udm), and, YES, WE'RE BETTER THAN THAT. That's what made the FM Forum so special, that's why we've all gone to such great lengths to keep this group of film fanatics and appreciators and semiprofessional critics together, and that's why we're all still here, and I REMEMBER THAT, even if you don't. And if I have to kick some of you in the ass every so often until your head clears and you remember that we're all pretty much friends here, and that there's no reason to either take offense or to give it, well, THAT's certainly a job I'm not only qualified for, but experienced at, as some of you may remember, and I'm prepared to do it for free, and with no small measure of enthusiasm, frankly.

Now, third: It's gratifying to see the appreciation some here have gone to the trouble of expressing to the people who are working each and every day to make this place not only possible, but succeed, and I think now would be a good time to set aside our momentary differences of opinion and think about something johnErle said:

...I can see you pouring hours and hours into this, just like Skryke and others are already doing, and if I see the community taking advantage of that and never thanking you and the others for what they do and whining about every little omission, I might start to sour on the Fantaverse as a whole. I've seen it before where some people are willing to give, give, give while the rest simply take, take, take, and I don't like being around that. Hopefully that won't happen here... And in case someone hasn't done so already...thanks again to everyone who's keeping these leagues alive. It's greatly appreciated, even if I forget to mention it on a [regular] basis.
Those are really lovely words, and it would be nice to see TPTB on the receiving end of more of them, going forward. No one's making any money off this, remember; this ain't Fantasy Moguls. (Of course, apparently, they didn't, either.)

johnErle brings up a good point: This site, this game, this community takes EFFORT, and in his eloquent warnings about the commitment these "pods" would represent to me or whoever else eventually efforts them (because, let's face it, they WILL be a part of the game again, it's just a matter of time and, I believe, ESSENTIAL if we're to ever grow this community and make it attractive to newcomers not used to the pace and depth of the game) was the understanding that quite a bit of blood and sweat and tears, even treasure, is put into this thing without a whole lot of acknowledgement on the part of those who benefit from it. Now, john seems to think that's a situation that's wide open for people to be taken advantage of, their sacrifices ignored, their contributions abused. I disagree. Speaking just for myself, here: What I've done in the past for this place (wherever it's been), what I do now and whatever I may hope to do in the future, I do OUT OF LOVE FOR THE GAME, THE COMMUNITY AND THE IDEA. In addition to being a cynic, a Sophist and an occasional sadist, I'm also an idealist, and half of being an "idealist" is in the IDEA, that makes the IDEAL POSSIBLE. This place is above all other things -- a game, a community, an escape -- an IDEA and an IDEAL, and knowing that makes whatever effort I put into it not only acceptable, but profitable, from an entertainment and intellectual and, yes, even spiritual perspective. The only times over the last few years I've felt wronged, or cheated, or disappointed with regards to the Fantaverse, were when I COULDN'T CONTRIBUTE TO IT, when my voice was silenced, my presence removed due to circumstances not entirely within my ability to control or mitigate. Maybe that makes me screwed-up, or stupid, or crazy. I honestly don't care. I've said it before, and I'll say it right here again: The Fantaverse is a fine place, and worth fighting for. If my small efforts, my occasional contributions, my rare insights, help to make this place a better and more fulfilling and more rewarding and more positive experience for you all, that's great, but mainly I do it because I profit from the doing. If YOU get something out of it, that's great and I sincerely hope that's the case, but if you don't, I'd do it anyway. Because I believe in this place, and what it represents, and what it will eventually become, and knowing all that makes EVERYTHING not only worthwhile, but precious to me.

Life's full of things we can't do anything about, circumstances we can't control, outcomes we can't affect. This is something I can DO. So i do it, and I'm grateful to have the opportunity, and hopeful for what in the fullness of time it may evolve into. And I bet every single other person, here and at Fantasy Moguls, who ever contributed a single moment of their time and creativity and effort to making this place possible, at one point or another felt exactly the same, because, as we now well know, no one got rich off the place. And maybe now it's time to cut those poor bastards over at our former home some slack, because now maybe there's a somewhat greater appreciation for all that went into it: imagination and dedication and innovation and enthusiasm and more, much more, because someone basically lost their life's savings on it. I've read a lot of nastiness directed toward TPTB over there in the last couple of months, a lot of hate and discontent, a lot of wishes for bad things to befall them, as if losing your treasure and your dream all at the same time wasn't humbling enough. A lot of Fantaversians have been pretty selfish, thinking of that site's failure and the dismemberment of all that went into it over a period of years in terms of what it means to THEM, THEIR disappointment, THEIR inconvenience, THEIR frustration, THEIR confusion. That's fine; it's normal for people to think only in terms of what their favorite restaurant closing down means for THEM. I can't eat there any more! My favorite place to hang out with people I know and feel comfortable around is gone! Now I have to find somewhere equally awesome and conveniently located and affordable! With kick-ass cheesy fries and cheap beer! Are they thinking about the jobs lost, the fortunes swept away, the investment of time and energy and effort, all gone? Probably not. Yet look at the world around you. I don't know what it's like for Fantaverians living abroad, but here, even in Texas (one of the more positive regions, economically, at present), things are looking pretty grim. One of my best friends, an architect (you guys know him as manincellv, not active here unfortunately, but for good reason) just found out today that he's keeping his job, but his work week is being slashed to 3 days and he's going to take a 40% pay cut, effective immediately. Contributions to his pension, his disability insurance and his 401(k) are stopped. His increasing stake in the firm will have to be halted. Most concerningly, he's losing his health insurance, and he has a three-year-old with a developmental and speech disability caused by a rare birth defect (a fused skull at birth). Meanwhile, my wife, who makes well over six figures a year, just got a 4.5% merit raise, is looking at a seven-figure bonus in March, and is up for a promotion. My wife works hard, and is damned good at her job, but I can't honestly say that she / we deserve this, and my old friend Ross Lillie and his family doesn't and don't. So let's have a little respect and concern, and maybe even some limited appreciation, for the folks over at Atomic Moguls, who, yes, made mistakes, and, yes, failed to ask for help, and, yes, had a crappy business model to begin with, but invented this game and created the Forum and made everything we do and have and will experience here possible to begin with. So they fucked up. It happens. You should see how many times I have.

Now, here's what's going to happen: I'm going to go ahead with the January 30 "mock-up", to demonstrate what I'm really talking about here, since there's been (and continues to be, and it's getting worse I think) some confusion about what all I'm thinking of including and how helpful that information might be players, and how corrosive THAT wholesale levelling of the playing field might be to the game in general. I take full responsibility for causing said confusion, and not being more specific / settled in my vision for these "film pods" (henceforth, their new name, since "information capsules" sounded like a prescription drug for the ignorant). I honestly had NO FRIGGIN' IDEA what can of worms I was opening when I put this out there for public discussion... Oddly enough, I thought it was a fairly innocuous idea. I'm glad I did so, since I got some perspectives I clearly wasn't anticipating, ones that have made me put some serious thought into this, and, after all, that's what I was hoping for. But with tempers beginning to run a little hot, lanuage running a bit to the personal, and otherwise mild-mannered Fantaversians beginning to stoke their inner Hulks, I think it's time to call a cease-fire until we all know exactly WHAT THE HELL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. Therefore, here's what you can expect for the run-through / demonstration of titles opening January 30th:

[1] Title;
[2] Current poster;
[3] Release date - WITH specific "release type" (e.g., "limited", "major market", or "wide") information, but no dates except the title's initial entry into the marketplace;
[4] Studio(s) / production companies - sorry, I just don't see how this is classified information. However, if there's a consensus among the Fantaversians, I'll abide by their wisdom;
[5] Director;
[6] Major star(s);
[7] Premise / Synopsis;
...and PERHAPS SOME helpful Behind the Scenes perspectives, but I'll need to think about it.

And then I'll create a Poll and ask TPTB to send an E-mail message to ALL registered Fantaversians, so we can hear opinions and suggestions and criticisms from AS MANY interested / participating parties as possible before moving forward, since, whether you actually use them or not, HAVING these "pods" WILL certainly affect the game for EVERYONE. And all the decisions from that point will be up to you all and TPTB, and I'll step back and let everyone else thrash things out. (Enjoy!)

Now, I'm going to stay the Hell out of all the debating from here on out, since this is your choice, not mine, and whatever these "pods" end up being will be because of your input, and not mine, and that's the way it ought to be. I've made my case, now it's time for everyone to put their heads together and come up with a reasonable plan of action, one that I'll be happy to implement no matter what it looks like. Neither am I going to get into the discussion about the proper role of columnists or the effect of published opinions on the game; yes, I certainly do have my own perspective on this issue, but I'll keep it to myself, and let YOU, the REAL "Powers-That-Be", ALL OF YOU, work it out. I trust your judgment, and your decision-making abilities, and, well, that's all I have to say on that subject.

I'll close with just one specific response, to a question posed by johnErle:

Do the Dallas Cowboys share their playbook with other teams before a game? I think not.
Don't be too sure about that, partner. That's about as comprehensive an explanation for this last friggin' season as I've read ANYWHERE. [Grin]
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Keyser Soze on Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:30 am

[quote="Swedgin!"] Maybe that makes me screwed-up, or stupid, or crazy.[\quote]

Well, if you take one from column A........


[quote]With kick-ass cheesy fries and cheap beer![/i][\quote]

Mmmmmmmmmmm, kick-ass cheeeeeesy friiiiieeeesss and cheap beer (Insert best Homer drolling noise here)

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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Shrykespeare on Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:30 am

One thing that I am very proud of since we changed venues is the fact that I, with some help, have made the pricing even tougher and more challenging than it was on FM. In fact, several of you have alluded to this fact in various e-mails and PMs while submitting your slates. And, if I do say so my damn self, it's going to stay that way.

Case in point: 47 of the 56 available movies in the January season (not including Dance Flick, which was bumped to fall, but still including Watchmen and O'Horten, for now), have been chosen by at least one player thus far. That tells me that something is going right, as far as how we're coming up with the pricing scheme in the first place. (Which, in case you didn't know, was simply me hammering out a rough draft, and then running it by my fellow columnists Chien and Mr. Informative - and now, Swedgin!, who has become available again - and tweaking it where it's necessary.

I shook my head monthly, dumbstruck by some of the predictions that FM made way back when. ("Superbad for $2? Speed Racer for $55?? Are they on drugs?!?"). My goal in assuming the mantle of chief, erm, pricer was to make it as tough as possible, with no obvious throwaways and no obvious steals (well, no GLARING ones, at first glance, anyway). And that's how it should be. It may interest you to know, also, that in the four Super League tournaments, which have over 50 players in each contest, there has only been ONE occasion where two people have turned in exactly the same slate. Again, whatever else is going on, at least that facet has been honed to a razor's edge.

(Note: I have already begun working on the Feb-Apr price list, and I certainly hope that a ruling is made, one way or the other, on whether Watchmen will indeed be releasd in March or not, because that will undoubtedly affect the entire landscape of the season.)

As to the current debate, I think whatever Swedge can add to the game that will make it a little more colorful, a little more helpful, a little flashier, can only help. A little basic information will certainly not hurt, and like someone said, it will help keep new players in the game. Us seasoned pros may not appreciate it or even make use of it, but so what? Treat it like the cigarette lighter in your car (if you are, in fact, a non-smoker); it's there, it serves a purpose, just not one that you need. But you'll still be glad it's there they day you give your chain-smoking best friend a lift. (Just make sure you roll the window down.)

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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by geezer9687 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:54 am

Very well said Shryke, and I completely agree, you're pricing scheme is a hell of a lot tougher than the ones over at FM.

I'm pretty much done debating this until I see some actual results. I would like to thank everyone who is offering their time and effort to keep this game going, it is extremely appreciated.

Just one thing to say about Swedge's rant: I don't think its fair to compare what the old powers that be at FM had to do, compared to what people here have to do to keep the game going. Obviously, they had to create the concept and write the code for the website, but once that was taken care of, it was a lot easier to run than it is now for us. I doubt that they had someone punching in numbers for every individual slate, and checking several threads searching out changes and updates to people's slates and then going to check the actual numbers and typing them into a spreadsheet. I'm sure they had a system that made it much, much easier. Really, this makes me appreciate the work that Shryke had been doing with the Super Leagues a lot more, not the work they did at FM, where everything was set up. It would have been nice for them to maybe, ya know, throw us a bone going forward as to how they did this, as we don't have anyone technically savy enough to come up with our own. Its not like they are even using it anymore. Why couldn't they have helped us out even the slightest bit. They just threw us to the curb and told us to fend for ourselves.

That said, we have done a pretty damn good job. I am so thankful to Shryke, and Donte, and Buscemi, and J-Man and anyone else who is doing updates for a league that I am participating in, because doing it the bare-bones way can not be easy. So again, thank you for the effort.

And just a side note to Shryke: How exactly do you do it, with all the slates you have to manage, that would take days... what exactly are you using to to organize all of these leagues. I know you said someone helped you create a better system, azurewolf i think, have you shared this system with anyone else? Because I think that going forward, I think your leagues are the only ones I will play in, because well, I only use one slate a season anyway, and I know I can count on weekly updates from you that are almost always accurate.

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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Shrykespeare on Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:17 am

geezer9687 wrote:Very well said Shryke, and I completely agree, you're pricing scheme is a hell of a lot tougher than the ones over at FM.

Aw, shucks... Embarassed

I would like to thank everyone who is offering their time and effort to keep this game going, it is extremely appreciated.


Someday, If I ever win that damn Powerball jackpot, I'm throwing a party at some fancy-schmancy hotel, and you're all invited.


That said, we have done a pretty damn good job.

That's 'cause we rule. We ARE the man... even those of us who are women. (Oh, crap, talk about painting oneself into a corner...)


And just a side note to Shryke: How exactly do you do it, with all the slates you have to manage, that would take days... what exactly are you using to to organize all of these leagues. I know you said someone helped you create a better system, azurewolf i think, have you shared this system with anyone else? Because I think that going forward, I think your leagues are the only ones I will play in, because well, I only use one slate a season anyway, and I know I can count on weekly updates from you that are almost always accurate.

Anyone who wants a copy of the spreadsheet, with the formula for calculating points in the four Ultimate categories by raking them from first to worst (or worst to first) has been invaluable, and I'll send anyone who asks for it a copy.

And actually, geez, it now takes less time to do it then it did before. You see, on FM if someone made a change to their roster, I would wait until the weekend deadline passed, which meant that a player's roster was "locked" for the films coming out that day. I would have to manually check every single roster to see if any changes had been made, until that person had exhausted their allotment of movies. That was time consuming as hell, especially in the summer months when I had twelve different Super League rounds to track, along with the three Regular Ultimate league and three Box Office leagues. (I didn't bother manually tracking the Bankrupts, or any other league that was started by someone else.) Now, however, it's a piece of cake. Since everyone now sends their rosters, and any concurrent changes to those rosters, directly to me, I don't have to worry about possible changes, since they're already made. All I have to do is check my e-mail and my TFR PM inbox every day to make sure nobody got missed, and we're good to go for the weekend. If we ever were to create a new website that more closely resembled the system FM had, it would mean a lot more work for me, but that's a trade-off that I'd GLADLY live with.

Beyond that, it's simply a matter of plugging in the numbers that BOM/IMDb give me, sorting the spreadsheet columns appropriately, saving it to a pdf format and posting the results on the Message Boards. Easy peasy, Japanesey.

And you're all very welcome. Like Swedge, I do this for the love. Not for the money (even if there WAS any), not for the kudos, but for the love of it. Of course, if no one appreciate my special brand of humor, I'm sure I'd lose any motivation for staying, but that's certainly never been a problem. I, too, waded through murky waters of the IMDb and TWoP message boards, eventually tiring with both the draconian methods the moderators of those boards meted out their brand of protocol as well as the ugly turns most of the discussions were taking anyway.

The FM Message Boards, and now these boards, ARE BETTER. They should always be better. And the day THAT ceases to be true, it's time to sell off the remaining inventory, board up the store windows and hop the last train outta town. Metaphorically speaking.

Look forward to your prototype, Swedge. (Okay, Swedge-O-Matic is a little cornball... how about something more sci-fi-geeky, like Captain Swedge Antilles? Eh? Eh?)

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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Swedgin! on Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:32 am

Criminy, I can't keep away. (Just when I think that I'm out... They PULL ME BACK IN!) LOL...

(Okay, Swedge-O-Matic is a little cornball... how about something more sci-fi-geeky, like Captain Swedge Antilles? Eh? Eh?)
As long as my "pet" name isn't going to be "Sister Swedge", I can deal. I don't mind humiliation... I'm a Republican, a lifelong Red Sox fan, and an Aggie besides.


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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by NSpan on Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:42 am

undeadmonkey wrote:I'm against having ALL of the movies info in the capsules as well, but i dont think that it's going to be that much. Maybe we should wait until Swedge does his test run with the 1/30 releases, and we can vote for what we like and what we dont.
i say, assuming someone is willing to provide and update the info, everybody should have access to (at least) what is OFFICIALLY known about a movie.. release dates, platform release schedules, cast, director, basic synopsis, etc. all seem like must-have info for the game to operate smoothly and fairly.. RUMORS and SPECULATION, on the other hand, should be left to the forum, e-mail, and personal investigation
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Buscemi on Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:45 am

Your name should be Swedge Hammer. Like the television character.

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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Donte77 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:09 am

I think the one thing we need to remember is that WE are now TPTB.

If Swedgie makes his little movie blurbs and we don't like them we can remove them. If they work and we like them, they stay.

If we add a studio section for each slate and player like at FM and we decide it isn't working, we get rid of it.

If the columnists's columns are no longer necessary, they can stop writing them. (Although they would still have to write them and email them to me...)

To quote, "It's our time. It's our time down here."

We can do whatever we want and if it works, fan-fuckin-tastic. If it sucks we drop it like a hot turd sammich.

I just think that we need to start streamlining the game. We have actually added a few members in the last month but I never see most of them on the boards and we have a few in Shryke's Super's that I don't know. That is a good thing.

But I think it would serve us well to not be satisfied with the game. It is the passion for this place that enabled it to survive the passing of FM and made us all get together to come here on TFR. We need to keep that going.

The game is a lot of fun and this forum is the best but I miss playing in 12 leagues every season. I don't want to just play one slate like Geez (just how we differ is all). I like trying different combo's in different leagues to test myself. I like getting 2nd to Shaan in the Talking League while getting fifth in the Regular's league and losing the Bankruptcy league horribly. That was part of the fun for me. Now it is almost impossible to keep track of multiple leagues and I think that is a shame.
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by numbersix_99 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:17 am

Swedgin! wrote:

However, second, it's the unrestrained and provocative expression of said passions that is beginning to worry me a bit. God knows I'm wont to tease, but what's going on here right now seems to be pushing somewhat beyond just the innocent quip or the grinning flame; there's an undercurrent of nastiness beginning to develop here, and, forgive me for assuming the role of daddy and disciplinarian, but I'd like it to stop, now, please.

I hope none of this is related to my dig at JohnE- it was meant in the most meaningless of ways, and I really hope he didn't take it personally.
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by NSpan on Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:07 am

Donte77 wrote:My main concern though is a "Studios" page that a person could go to in order to view their current slates, leagues etc. Even if we streamline into just a few leagues it would still be nice to be able to see your leagues and standings without hunting through each forum. I think this will help with the drudgery of that aspect. This will also clean the process up and help us to gain players in the future.
good point. i think we've gotten way too ahead of ourselves.. we should focus our resources on establishing the foundational elements of the game before we get tied up with minor details.. even our most veteran players (okay, at this point, who isn't a "veteran"?) have expressed some frustration with this new (or lack thereof) format... certainly we can find ways to make the game a bit more accessible (and playable) to mogulers new and old..

Swedgin! wrote:However, second, it's the unrestrained and provocative expression of said passions that is beginning to worry me a bit. God knows I'm wont to tease, but what's going on here right now seems to be pushing somewhat beyond just the innocent quip or the grinning flame; there's an undercurrent of nastiness beginning to develop here, and, forgive me for assuming the role of daddy and disciplinarian, but I'd like it to stop, now, please.
i re-read the thread to figure out what the heck you're talking about.. everything appears to be business-as-usual to me.. i didn't see any of the "nastiness" you speak of.. or am i just dense?



to those who are arguing for a more "cut-throat" version of the game--don't you think it's hard enough as is?? even if we were ALL working with the EXACT same information regarding each movie, i guaran-freakin-tee that we'd still see an entire spectrum of slates and strategies.. the truth is, even the most informed moguler out there is still leaving a LOT to guesswork.. there've been weekends where literally NOBODY knows what's happening until the final numbers are posted.. also, as surfer mentioned, if we have any interest in EXPANDING this game beyond the borders of our little cult, we're gonna have to streamline it--a lot. i don't suggest compromising the complexity of the game itself, but we are going to have find ways to make it a bit more manageable (and a bit more pretty, i daresay).. i can't imagine newcomers sticking around long enough to learn the game and actually enjoy it at this point..


ps. the fact that Fantasy Moguls didn't mention whether a movie was getting a wide or limited release was damn aggravating! the answer was only two clicks away--it didn't take skill or an especially high level of motivation to figure it out.. it was just an annoyance.. let's IMPROVE on their model.. we needn't embrace their shortcomings..
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by geezer9687 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:16 am


i re-read the thread to figure out what the heck you're talking about.. everything appears to be business-as-usual to me.. i didn't see any of the "nastiness" you speak of.. or am i just dense?
I don't think you are dense NSpan, as I had the same reaction.

So I hear all of this talk of "We need to streamline the game! We need to make things better! We need to make things easier and more accessible!" but I don't hear any actual ideas on how this is going to happen. It's one thing to acknowledge what needs to be done. Its another thing entirely to figure out how to do it and begin to implement it, and I, for one, have no idea how we would go about doing this. Everyone is willing to volunteer their time and effort, but until we have a concrete plan, there isn't much we can do. So lets try and start actually coming up with ways to implement Donte's original post intentions, rather than everyone saying what has to be done, without throwing out any ideas on how to do it. I'll do whatever my mod powers allow me to do to help.

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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Swedgin! on Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:24 am

Briefly...


Your name should be Swedge Hammer. Like the television character.
Mmm. Swedge Hammer! Oooh! Meesa like-a disss!

[...I] re-read the thread to figure out what the heck you're talking about.. everything appears to be business-as-usual to me... [d]idn't see any of the "nastiness" you speak of.. or [am I] just dense?
Not necessarily. As I said earlier, maybe I got the wrong idea. However, it DID seem to me (and others) that some of the back-and-forth late on Page 3 was becoming rather strident, insulting, and personal. If I'm wrong, and spoke a little precipitously myself in trying to tamp down what I interpreted as an unnecessarily provocative digression, well, I'm willing to live with that. Sometimes it's very, very hard to accurately assess meaning, not to mention interpret intent, in this disturbingly limited medium of communication... even with that plethora of retarded f@$%ing Emoticon assholes constantly grinning, blinking, snoring, bouncing, flashing, nodding, shaking, waving, quivering and just plain annoying the Hell out of me over there on the right.


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Last edited by Swedgin! on Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by NSpan on Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:43 am

geezer9687 wrote:I don't hear any actual ideas on how this is going to happen.
using Java or Flash (or, heck, HTML), we need to create a little movie calculator that utilizes the appropriate season's prices and lets players visually create a slate of 8 movies that don't add up to more than $100.......... i don't know enough to make one from scratch--but i've been scouring the net looking for something similar that i can adapt for our purposes.. i've started by browsing fantasy sports sites, but haven't come up with anything useful yet
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by MisterInformative on Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:16 am

johnErle wrote:Do the Dallas Cowboys share their playbook with other teams before a game? I think not.
No, silly, the Dallas Cowboys don't have a 'playbook,' persay, just a binder full of elaborately plotted touchdown celebrations and various choreographed arguments on the sidelines.
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Buscemi on Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:24 am

Actually, it's 53 players with 53 different plays to call. It's up to Jessica Simpson to pick them.

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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Swedgin! on Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:33 am

...[S]illy, the Dallas Cowboys don't have a 'playbook,' [per se], just a binder full of elaborately plotted touchdown celebrations and various choreographed arguments on the sidelines.
[Chuckling] It's funny 'cos it's true.

Actually, it's 53 players with 53 different plays to call. It's up to Jessica Simpson to pick them.
Somewhat less funny if you're a fan o' the 'Boys (and I am), but also true. Dammit.


Funny AND true. The little f@$%er
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by johnErle on Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:13 pm

MisterInformative wrote:
johnErle wrote:Do the Dallas Cowboys share their playbook with other teams before a game? I think not.
No, silly, the Dallas Cowboys don't have a 'playbook,' persay, just a binder full of elaborately plotted touchdown celebrations and various choreographed arguments on the sidelines.

I guess it's obvious I haven't paid any attention to American Football in years. Is Joe Montana still playing?

(I know it's often hard to tell on the internet, but that Joe Montana part was a joke.)
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by johnErle on Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:01 pm

silversurfer19 wrote:
JohnErle wrote:To be honest, I've never been thrilled with the fact that we've got three regular contributors offering hot tips for the week. I understand that FM was selling advertising, and if more people were visiting the site to read the various columns, then it was better for business, but now it only serves to make the game easier for everyone. Unless the columnists are consistently wrong, in which case they're making things more difficult, which is fine by me.

Actually, I enjoy reading their columns, mainly because I enjoy reading their thoughts on the films in release. It's no different from reading what everyone discusses on the forums, just minus the digressions (well, apart from when Nico was writing...). I never pick my movies soley on what the columnists comment on, but it does provoke discussion, which really, is what we are all here for.

I enjoy reading them too, after the fact. Maybe using the HIDE TEXT button would make it easier to avoid the temptation to read them beforehand?

You want competition, yet you don't compete in the Ultimate leagues? They are the hardest leagues y'know...

In a weird way, I find them no more difficult than BO leagues, if you've done your research. And since the research may now be handed to everyone, that's why I think the competition will suffer. I've only been playing since October, but I've been doing better in Ultimate Leagues from the very beginning, so focusing on BO is more of a challenge for me.
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Donte77 on Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:05 am

OK focusing on the problems that we all see in our current model.

Problem; No central location for slates and leagues to be viewed without sorting through forum posts.
Solution; Make one.

Problem; The game is ugly and mostly text and would be hard to "sell" to new players.
Solution; make it a clickable chart type play model and pretty it up.

Problem; We need a central location to show current movies and the points and money they have accumulated.
Solution; Add a section to the site for this (SS has been posting them on a forum section but again in text and ugly).

Problem; Lack of info on movies without lots of research on various websites
Solution; Swedgie's Movie balloons with basic info.

Problem; The language on the boards is rated R due to this big-mouthed bastard in Arkansas.
Solution; None needed. Donte is great.

Problem; Lots of people are doing the same exact work on updating movie data.
Solution; We need to get together and parcel out the work to streamline the time put in. I have no idea how many of us are doing the updates every week but I know there are at least 4-5 of us. We need to all share instead of doing the repitition.

Problem; I keep trying to call Swedgin Nico.
Solution; Either change back or I need to stab my brain with a pencil.
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

Post by Keyser Soze on Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:32 am

Donte,

I think the first thing we need to do if we are ever going to attract more players is make sure we have the games running in a smooth and timely manner. Now I want to state right here that I am not pointing fingers at anyone as I now know that many of the people running some of these games have much more important things going on in their lives right now than updating league standings, but going forward, I believe that the number 1 priority should be the games. I(Along with many others) am currently in 3 Leagues (People Love Pixar, Santa Vs. The Walmartians and the Ladder B League) running here either from Nov-Jan or Dec-Feb, and not one of these leagues has been updated since early - mid December. As I said earlier, having spoken to each individual responsible for said leagues, I know they are busy, but if I was a newbie and had somehow found my way over to this site or had been invited by one of you to join that I most likely wouldn't be sticking around to play for too long.

I think there definitely needs to be a sticky for each league that has nothing in it but the currently updated standings for that league. There should be another section that contains nothing but folks' slates for that game and then a third for discussion of that league. As for slate changes, do you think they should just be posted to your slate page or should you also have to e-mail them to your league administrator thereby saving him the time of constantly having to go through all of the slates each week to see if anyone has made any changes, and if those changes are copacetic?

I'm trying to help contribute where I can
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Re: The next step in making the Fantaverse a better place (Actual serious post by Donte)(really)

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